By and large I try not to feel sad for people, but I do feel slightly sad for all those outraged at the appointment of Emery. The concept of a management team maybe putting together a job description, employing Headhunters, compiling a long list, inviting applications, holding interviews, possibly then moving on to a second set of interviews before making their final decision – and then the HR and Legal Teams working out exact details of contracts and remuneration before the decision is made public is clearly alien to them. That all this has happened seemingly so quickly – remember Arsene only announced his resignation a scant month ago – suggests to me that the process, far from being the panicked rush that some claim, has actually been carefully managed and orchestrated.
Arsene’s announcement – the eloquent tributes already in place, the talk of the future and his replacement (and don’t forget all those other appointments made this year), the magic final match, celebrations and presentations, the secrecy since then, the poignant pictures of Arsene leaving Colney for the last time – and then only hours later the bombshell announcement from Ornstein. Impressive work, I reckon, and a sign to me that the club from Kroenke down have made some cold-blooded and logical decisions with the express aim of restoring Arsenal to its position as undisputed leaders of London football – and exceptionally well-placed to mount a serious challenge to all clubs, both English and further afield.
Positively Arsenal 
BK Why can’t you do it now?
Your comment on Iwobi was dismissed as it made no sense. What other players do yu refer to – you haven’t named them previously.
If someone doesn’t agree with your opinion you shoudn’t be so precious. Dear.
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FP., which comment on Iwobi? In think I said he hadn’t improved as much as we’d hoped. Think that’s fair, and I expect him to be a part of Emery’s plans.
Must say I read your response on the bank holiday, but didn’t see anything else after that.
And to add, I’m not good at writing extemporaneously, so i’d retract the “ire” bit if I could edit my last post.
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eg.:
Nzonzi was rated highly by his coaches for a long time, since before he moved to Sevilla!
I can dig out the quotes from Biggus Sammus himself.
What would the coach who brought close to retirement Okocha and Djorkaeff in order to add some stardust and skill to his Bolton squad know about top level talent in football?
Nevermind…
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Here’s to the future.
All feels open to me in terms of how we will play and what players Emery will prefer. Any time I think a picture is emerging, from looking at his squads and players used in Valencia and Sevilla years, I notice surprising elements.
In the Sevilla years for instance it looked at the end like he favoured big centre midfielders- Iborra, Nzonzi, Krychowiak- but he’s also a guy who got a good season out of the diminutive Danish midfielder Krohn-Deli, who Jose Antonio Reyes played well under, and who used the small technical Ever Banega to good effect.
I guess it points to versatility and a mixed approach.
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Iwobi was also apart of AW’s plans. Obviously so. he just wanted promoted as fast as Fabregas or Cole or Anelka…for good reasons that are easily understood.
There’s no “debate” here.
Watch out for those lizards BK.
And snakes too.
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just was not promoted..
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Oh FP, this about the the “Lizard Men” thing! I’ve gone back now, and I clearly said that was a joke. I’ll take that back too, but it was meant in jest,
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Full and frank exchange of views about matters Arsenal – as long as it is respectful – is the watchword of the sight, its lifeblood. The use of the word “liar” jarred my ear, I admit.
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FP, I think I put that whole argument across in pretty meek terms. Ignore recent league results for a sec, and just look at the output and compare it to before – the amount of youngsters nailing down permanent spots in the team and then progressing to mainstays, the players left out of WC squads this summer (this in itself isn’t a reliable gauge, but is part of a pattern). I genuinely don’t think it’s unfair to claim that we’ve tailed off somewhat when it comes to player development. This is what AW has always prided himself on most, after all.
And in that mix is the total overhaul of the club’s hierarchy; it speaks to a recognition that something needed updating. And now we’ve singled out a man who helped keep Sevilla competitive by polishing up players from the likes of Reims and Lorient.
I say it’s no coincidence, and I’m very excited about what’s to come.
That was my favourite of AW’s many qualities, along with always supporting the players in public (from 2014 or so he occasionally started laying into them after games – even singling out individuals from time to time), and generally playing on the front foot (we started sitting on 1-0 leads around that time too).
I won’t talk about conspiracies anymore, I promise. I thought we were cool.
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Welcome and congratulations Unai, and congratulations to the club, I believe this to be a very good choice
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anicoll5
I would never use that word if the accusation was not so egregious.
I was accsued of mis-characterisation of someones argument, where clearly that was not true. Mainly because the person had battled someone previously and not read what I had written nor understood the context . As subsequently he was in full understanding of the point I was making.
If ever there was mis-characterisation of anything that anyone has said on this site ,the statement Eduardo gave (May 22, 2018 at 7:11 pm ) was nothing more than a lie, in content,intent and form.
I have asked him to prove otherwise.
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It’s not clever to dress up one’s own opinions as facts. I appreciate that the reflection in the looking glass can be very flattering.
The facts are that Mesut Ozil, Alexis Sanchez and Santi Cazorla to name three top top level talents in Football in recent times* have produced their best football in their careers during their time at Arsenal Football Club. And it’s not like they did nothing elsewhere. Loved that Villareal team though it’s interesting to consider if they matched the heights hit by Sevilla under the new Arsenal manager.
That paragraph above is not an opinion. There is a lot of information available to support this simple understanding.
I’ve just reeled three names off the top of my head. There are others too. Conversely we got a couple of years of peak BFG, but it’d have been nice to have got more before age caught up with him. He was really at his peak during those tournament finals (two I think) that Germany didn’t win, and was a little unlucky he came up against the bouncing Algerian Pharmaceutical XI at the last WC. Don’t worry the hive-mind here that brooks no critique of AW will not turn that organic chronology of the BFGs arrival at AFC as a clutch to hold on to and beat the previous manager. Nevermind our projections on the cost of not being ruthless with the BFG and LK made last season on these pages, though yes it wasn’t a critque, more of an understanding. As in: to understand.
Nevermind the…
*George might not agree with that full list! And here we have always enjoyed such divergence of opinions, save when people get boringly repetetive…on whatever topic!
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I feel like I’ve brought the tone down enough on this auspicious day. But it occurs to me that we’re similar, FP (we’re not so different you and I!).
If you had never made that leap of faith: If you didn’t believe referees were corrupt, and that every other team is “on it”, you might come to similar conclusions on how we’ve slipped a little, cup performances notwithstanding. How else could it possibly be rationalised? Again, this isn’t disingenuous.
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Cazorla in the PL. A midfield general!
Amazing.
But in some quarters it seems like this wasn’t one of the coolest, funniest, most entertaining, ground breaking pioneering spectacles to have occured this past decade in the premier league (tricky sometimes against opponets allowed to foul away from home but, usually one certain opponent most seasons…: they had to try!).
Meanwhile Mata still can’t get a game at Utd…
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Where have i written every other team is “on it”?
I think you must be confusing me with Tim. Or someone else.
What is it with the insinuations? They are: rather lame.
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It may not have been a lie, could have been a genuine mistake.
For instance, I presume I am the person in question who used term mischaracterise- I did- but I am 99% certain I’d had no battle with anyone beforehand (no memory of it and it’s a rare thing for me here *. Also pretty sure I read what you wrote and understood the context.
But for my part I’d like to let last week go. I tried anyway, and don’t think it’ll add anything here to get into it again. If I level-jumped- never good- at any time in that argument, I apologise.
*pgmpb disputes with anicoll aside, which I think are done without vitriol and even a bit of humour at times**
**though I’m right, Anicoll, right I tell ye!
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–
Though if an individual believes, has made a choice to think, that they are conversing with some kind of hive mind however blinking weird that may sound, then the above does make some kind of sense. I suppose.
Nevermind the…
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Unai Emery gets appointed as our HEAD COACH, and this site is more dramatic than Arsenal twitter. Fun.
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Allegri was never coming. You all know why.
The only hive mind that can be observed in action is the one used by the idiot hacks.
Stay way from that stinking pile and you’ll avoid flatulant ‘debate’.
The Arteta vs. Emery thread is interesting. Likewise why did Young Pep choose Arteta as his eyes and ears on the current players coaches and clubs in the PL over Viera?
All intersting stuff.
None of it covered by the blaggers and hacks. At least i haven’t heard or read any.
So then: Lehman and Bould will be Emery’s “eyes and ears”. And Arteta will not be asked to be a player-manager of his old teammantes. Guardiola wasn’t asked to do that, neither was Zidane? I don’t know the exact facts there but I think that i can reasonably speculate that they were not asked to do so.
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Wait..our new manag…errr…head coach…is on Twitter?? Whooo boy..
Arsenal better be hiring 10 social media moderators as his assistants as we speak.
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FP, OK sorry, i assumed you believed they were all doping. So it’s just the refs plotting against Arsenal then. The dynamics strike me as pretty identical; shady external forces conniving against Arsenal.
So, if you didn’t believe any of that, how would you explain the last 18 months?
On the players you singled out:
Cazorla was already getting starts at CM in the Spain side (there’s no higher benchmark for midfielder) before he came, Ozil was a star at the 2010 World Cup and had good years at RM. I’d say he’s more or less kept his level, while Alexis Sanchez was called El Niño Maravilla for good reason. I think he’s had his best years at AFC, but I wouldn’t disagree with the chorus who claim his performances were at a detriment to the team.
If you had to single out someone who came from a relatively humble level to a permanently high one, I’d have to go back to,,,Ramsey, and that would come with caveats (out of his hands because of injury). I think Monreal had half his Spain caps before joining Arsenal, so the obvious one would before Ramsey would be Koscielny. That’s a long way back.
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Is anyone else worried about some of our young talent leaving when we are offering them new contracts. The replacement of these lads will take time and the situation seems to be increasing.
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Absolutely Ian. This is the drum that i am guilty of banging on about since before last Summer. Ask Eddy!
As in: Since Chambo got poached/tapped up etc. and the club had to start again with Iwobi and yep we were discussing this last Summer too as the squad was being weakened, which is why we in particular I wanted to discuss it:
Because the squad was being weakened. That’s ignoring the slowing down of the senior CBs and the loss of Gabby changing the composition of the squad as well
But apparently some have the belief that losing Chambo who got his stats last season playing at WB and swapping him for the less developed Iwobi is an indication that AW had ‘lost his touch’ though one would have to ignore Ozil, Cazorla, Alexis etc. in order to flog that Opinion.
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Birdkamp
I think Giroud, Ozil, Alexis, Santi all developed under Wenger. If we want to talk about younger players, Bellerin came through when everyone said we don’t have a RB except Debuchy. He then suffered concussion which resulted in some loss of form, and now he’s playing better again. Iwobi is doing well. He started on fire but this often happens with young players where there’s a bit of a reset. Chambers has improved. Maitland-Niles has come on so well that he’s seen as a great hope by many. Holding is making steady progress. Many players made their debuts this season.
Of course when the team is doing less well, it is harder to give youth a chance because results must take precedence. Also we’re not in the ‘project youth’ era anymore and as such we’re not going to have as many players on as accelerated a program of first team development. (Our stated goal is 1 player every 2 years) We also did recalibrate the academy operations because something could be improved there, and presumably there was a gap of some elite talent coming through (I think this is normal. Even at Barcelona)
Now we have some great talent again as winning the U23 shows. I’m sure they’ll get incorporated in.
Plus we’ve had a few young players struggle with injuries in the past few years. Bielik, Zelalem, Mavididi and I’m sure there’s more.
SO when you suggest player development stalled, what is your criteria for this?
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*scroll down if you’re not interested, because this is a waffle-fest*
Shard,
You mention Giroud, and I’d add him to the list at the end of that response to FP earlier. Although there was a reason he wasn’t getting minutes at the end, that I think had to do with goal-scoring reliability over a season rather than just prolific streaks. It’s still a little bereft
Cazorla I’m uncomfortable talking about, because I don’t think he played more than half a season in each of his three years at CM with AFC. He was a special player, one of my favourites of all time, but he was also long established as an international.
Project Youth or not, Emery is expected to develop young players. That was one of three principles Gazidis outlined in his press conference. Clearly it’s meant to be part of the club’s identity, and it’s not unreasonable to interpret the changes behind the scenes, and even AW leaving, as a sign that we’ve been found wanting in this regard for some time.
I’d claim that the team was struggling last season partly because the players weren’t improving, or hadn’t improved enough to bolster the team when called upon. So I’d call 6th a symptom of that. I think because of the financial disparity in the PL, 60-odd points and 6th place is as low as it gets for Arsenal.
The club has got a lot of talented young players. But I’m most interested in that phase between u23 and first team. Now, I’m not unfamiliar with the process of a young player coming through and then slipping back as he gets accustomedto the grind of being a first team player.
But, and this is sort of asking you to see what isn’t there – so is tricky – is it inconceivable that a few more players, from Chambers to Iwobi, and definitely including Bellerin, might be further along in their development at this stage?
I believe AW’s eye for a player is undiminished, but has he wrung the talent out of those players above? I’m thinking perhaps not. This is not an exact science (how could it be?), but is reflected in things like international call ups. Bellerin has lost his place to a player the same age. And it’s also evident just watching them on the pitch, and again, looking at how this season went.
I adore Iwobi – his skills between the lines or halfspace or whatever, are naturally under appreciated. and this isn’t coming from someone who’d slaughter him online. But I single him out in this context because he’s two years into his first team squad career, and is exactly the kind of player AW used to excel at bringing through. He may go on to have a great WC, but has he made a difference outside of very isolated performances?
I’ve had to rush this post, and I regret that I spent so much time on something like this. I’m also an enormous AW fan, and this is all founded in a kind of fascination for his career.
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God, I have to go out an upbeat note – I’m so excited about the next phase. And I won’t brook any dissent until he’s had at least a season!
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Cazorla’s status as a footballer before he arrived at AFC has long been praised on these pages.
Not bad for a panic buy. If you’re attempting to tell this audience that playing CM in the PL is the same as playing for Spain against Portugal etc. then there is no further need to add anymore to this fascinating “debate” that you are not having.
The player developed. The interviews where he says so himself are available and out there. Regardless you are certainly entitled to an opinion, even if it doesn’t match the record.
As to the referees. Again you are entitled to an opinion. You won’t mention the data and information collected by not just Arsenal fans and you won’t go there because you can’t go there. I have no need myself to “debate” this topic certainly not here.
The spectacle of Arsenal supporters more willing to argue a defence of Mike Riley then Arsene Wenger shows about as much class as those people who on their podcasts are still smearing Pat Rice as a cone man. That Pat Rice did his shouting in the dressing room and training ground and not in front of the cameras (again data and further information is available to help understand this) doesn’t matter: Pat Rice had and has more class in his little finger then all of his critics put together (that is not an Opinion).
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But seriously on these Pat Rice and Bould smears:
The amount of disinformation surrounding this club is staggering! And Risible too. I hope no one is offended by our laughing at these tools.
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BK
It’s not unreasonable that Iwobi et al were further along. I think I hinted at what the difference is, but maybe not explicitly. When wenger brought players along earlier in such a context, he could ease them in, and when ready sell the guy in front and seemingly surprise the world with how well the new guy does. Now, the player has to do his growing up in the media eye (a more keen and impatient eye at that) as Arsenal, due to circumstances of either injury, being forced to sell players, or in the case of Alexis, unmotivated/selfish players, haven’t had the luxury of timing this just right. Bellerin for instance, would have had a couple of years of gradual appearances behind Debuchy were he not injured (Twice) Ox had progressed behind Walcott, despite injuries, to a stage where Liverpool were willing to pay 40m for him in his last year. Iwobi now has to go through the same process.
When Arteta was being talked about as manager, one of the concerns was how he would be able to manage his erstwhile teammates. I shared those concerns too. But I looked. Cech, Ospina, Monreal, Kos, Ramsey, Wilshere, Welbeck, and Ozil were the only established guys at the time he played for us. Elneny came in 6 months before he left. Bellerin and Iwobi were just coming through. Of those players who were established in the first team then, only Ramsey and Ozil are integral players by now. Maybe Cech. That’s how much change we have gone through in such a short time.
In such a situation, I think player development is bound to be affected.
PS. I left out Per and Cazorla because they’re not really active players for the last year anyway.
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Rich
we did debate
We may not have agreed but I felt you understood what the question I asked.
I never felt that you gathered your own problems and made them to be about something else.
What Eduardo did was not that.
What Markyb wrote spoke to his own sensibilties.
I am not blind and I do not believe anyone else is on this site.
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Sensibilities? I simply do not know how you know what Wright said is true, or how you know about the bullying at AFC in the youth teams, but you allude to know for sure. I do not like Ian Wright the Agents friend pundit puppet I’m afraid. He is all about self promotion and making a headline. Tremendous player but his antics leave a lot to be desired. This whole Arsenal are not Golden thing needs back up mate.
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Shard
This transition in the squad didn’t happen.
Even whilst Koscielny was hopping about on one leg for a whole season and the BFG was pondering if he’d made a mistake in not retiring after the cup final, whilst the coaches were bemoaning the resultant loss of options at the back, it was not happening!
L.O.L.
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markyb
You try to disparage me because I had the audacity to agree with Ian Wright on this particular point.
I have even found myself agreeing withn Piers Morgan on the odd occasion.
As for me talking about things that have happened at Arsenal , you just have to know the right people, nothing more. I am sure there are a ton of people who tell you things people on this site don’t know about.
The fact remains the club did not wake up last week and thought ‘Oh Arsenal need a manager’.To leave it so late to call on a legend of the club, who is an aspiring manager,with a solid record as a manager certainly not just to Ian Wright and myself but many others believe it smacks of tokenisim.
I voiced that, it made you feel uncomfotable,you reacted
That is about your sensibilities.
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Wwwb
So would it be better if they didn’t call him at all?
By the way, when did they call him?Gazidis said they had the first interview on 25th April, and the last on 15th may. (Emery on the 10th) They recommended Emery on the 18th. So, when was Vieira called? How late?
Also, do you simply agree with Wright, or do you have some other information as well that would support that claim?
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Shard
I go with what Patrick Vieira said, how he felt how it played
He had the interview or conversation.
The controlled media never showed any inclination towards him(Not talking about the red tops)
That is all .
Yeah I would have preferred if they did not leave as an after thought and not contacted him at all. That shows to me the courage of your conviction.
They never fancied him, I good with that but don’t pretend when it is too late.
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I can’t find what Vieira said (I just looked) What did he say Wwwb?
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It was a French interview on the radio
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Wwwb
Glad we can leave it there.
Everyone- how long until the first game!!? I’m ready!
Normally, I try disengage for at least a couple of weeks after the season’s end but, for obvious reasons I guess, there’s been no attempt this time. Suppose I should try now.
—————————————–
I really hope that at least beyond the worst elements of the fanbase- the unredeemables- there’ll be a sizeable fall in the hysteria around any bad results (imagine a loss, a single loss, just being a loss!) and everyone within the club and without can get some of the benefits Wenger alluded to in the interview I saw yesterday- forget the words, other than patience, but basically the grace period new managers traditionally get from supporters and media.
Admittedly that grace period has shrunk considerably, but let’s hope there is at least some. If not, i don’t see myself wanting to fight it in the same way I felt duty bound and compelled to fight against the worst of the nonsense of recent years, so the only thing for it will be to try cut most of it out.
Anyway, let’s hope, for the new manager, the team, a new era, and, despite them giving us less cause for optimism than the previous, for the fanbase,too.
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They asked him about the Nice job and if he would be interested in Marseille .
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I have to say I am super happy the manager is in place, the team the Ivan has put together look like they have substance.
They are making moves I like what I see so far.
Now we can look forward to the world cup and hope our players perform and come back healthy.
Would be a bonus if one of them came back as a Champion again.
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Rich
Considering the former manager of Valencia’s appraisal of the former manager of Valencia, no chance!
There’s something about the Arsenal that certain entities do not like. It has nothing to do with who the manager is. This is not an opinion but a conclusive and substantial observation. They don’t like us, we don’t care, people can regurgitate such gibberish if it makes them happy but I’d kindly suggest there are more interested things to discuss.
Such as the new manager’s fetish for data and information which has been described by an admiring former player as an: illness! Hehehe.
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fins
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/feb/04/europeanfootball.sport1?CMP=share_btn_tw
This is from 10 years ago when he was at Almeria. Paints quite a picture of the hard working obsessed coach (of of whoever Almeria’s scout was with some of those players named)
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I take back what I said about Emery being a late call up. while Gazidis might be economical with the truth sometimes (as part of his job), he would not share the level of detail if it weren’t true. Also, Emery flew to the US with him to meet the Kroenkes and not single journalist or ITK even mentioned it. Hah!
I don’t know why though, there is something about Gazidis’ insistence on talking about himself and making a show of himself that rubs me the wrong way. It’s nothing I can really explain or put my finger on. I guess I’m just too used to Arsene Wenger being the face of the club.
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Shard
As Andrew wrote a few days ago it is highly unlikely that this decision was made over a few days and had not already been made a few weeks back.
Possibly around the time when the new manager announced he was leaving his previous job? Hehe!
If people have a desire to believe that AFC are a shambles, don’t coach defence, can’t coach anymore full stop, don’t even know how to interview properly, don’t know the price of eggs, they are entitled to such beliefs. And desires.
Let’s hope the club and new manager manage to do what we have been discussing and yep debating and worrying about here since last summer amidst the PR Consultant led Chamberlain saga: to avoid continuous degrading of the squad which could occur with Ramsey moving to a bigger club, and get the new skipper to put that ink to paper soon!
Fingers crossed Bama, the signs are promising. Any statto freak looking at Ramsey’s numbers from last season will know his worth and value better then anyone clinging on to a strong opinion (plenty of those regarding Ramsey: L.O.L.?)
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A statto freak who has won more trophies then Simeone, Poch and Klopp combined. (More or less?)
I can understand and appreciate why Gary Neville is so upset. (As usual when it comes to the Arsenal).
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Shard
May 23, 2018 at 3:56 pm
I don’t know why though, there is something about Gazidis’ insistence on talking about himself and making a show of himself that rubs me the wrong way. It’s nothing I can really explain or put my finger on. I guess I’m just too used to Arsene Wenger being the face of the club
I agree with you here, I have a feeling Gazidis has had enough of being in the background and wants everyone to see what he has built as well. It looks like he has done a good job so far so he should be proud.
He would like to be more like Florentino Perez or Daniel Levy , bringing in someone like Vieira or a Henry this time would have overshadowed him and the power he has gained at the club.
He wants to flaunt that chunky new watch for a bit.
I just hope it does not go to his head.
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As Cazorla and others had to adapt to the PL after they arrived (Sanchez just didn’t bother!) so too will the new manager.
As it is for the players save one or two like Salah or Sanchez (not players deep in CM then!) so too for the manager’s, no amount of clawing at the blackboard can disguise the obvious logic in Young Pep bringing in Arteta, adapting to the particulars of life and opponents in the PL.
Well: I’d hoped it was obvious…one reason why we could put our “opinions” to one side and all be patient with Xhaka here. It’s not as if he was a senior pro like Arteta with years in the PL under his belt before he started playing as a deeper CM.
Which all means: My opinion is that I hope to see Lehmann and Bould remain as coaches. Nothing to suggest otherwise so far.
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Gazidis on appointing Unai Emery: “I know that [Emery] came as a bit of a surprise & perhaps there was one or two rewrites necessary [in the press]. Those who know won’t speak & those who speak won’t know.”
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For clarity
When he says ‘grow up’ he means develop
and development of the players
He showed passion that should make a few happy
there may well be waving of arms,on the side lines some people will get nose bleeds I think there might get a few cheers for that alone.
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