45 Comments

Arsenal Stutter at Saints.

Hello one and all.

In this podcast we try to work out how we went from deadly to dire in the space of 90 minutes. Referee is bemoaned and some players scolded. However, when you return from an away game, having been very hit and miss, still with a point to show and remaining top of the hardest football league in the world, we mustn’t grumble .

If you do listen or watch on Youtube, please like, subscribe and if possible leave a comment.

Pedantic George.

45 comments on “Arsenal Stutter at Saints.

  1. Fuck me Uni back in the PL as Aston Villa coach

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  2. Unbelievable. But why am I surprised. Follow the money. The EPL is mint . Look at the cast of big players and coaches that have turned up in the League in recent years.

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  3. Gerrard perhaps should have stayed at Rangers, even for a few seasons longer. I wouldn’t be surprised if he also thought the same, he was really respected at that club.

    Villa certainly are ambition top-heavy (now aiming to win the Europa league?)…but who knows if will play out…it feels like it wont but..? After Artetas recent league record you might not have put money down on us being at the top.

    Cheers for the pod as usual lads. Keep on keepin’ on!

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  4. some are suggesting that the QPR manager Michael Beale, leaving Stevie G’s coaching team, was the reason for the decline at Aston Villa this season, that he was the real brains of the duo, Stevie G just the front man.

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  5. I have seen some suggestions that we only need a draw from one of our final two group matches to win the group. Maybe I am missing something, but if we lose tomorrow then draw with Zurich, our 13 points could be matched by PSV. So to guarantee 1st place in the group, wouldn’t we need to draw tomorrow or beat Zurich?

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  6. I’m not sure but I think it goes on head to head if teams are level on points. So if we lost I suppose it would depend on the score.
    If we draw tonight we would still finish top if we lose to Zurich.

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  7. Memories are short, corrupted by wishful thinking.

    Emery’s Arsenal was feted when it went 22 games unbeaten and yet analysis of those games did not justify the hype.

    For most of these games, we did not lead at halftime and tended to up the game only in the 2nd half.

    We know how that dream ended.

    Now Arteta’s Arsenal albeit top of the league is now the best thing since sliced bread and yet analysis of those games shows that the first 6 or so of them were against teams at the bottom who were not that much competition anyway. Defeat at manure was insufficient warning as it was followed by wins against a very inconsistent and wavering Liverpool and the scum and then 3 struggling 1-0 wins, one with a deflected gaol and the other a last-minute penalty.

    We can now see why Pep was delighted to get rid of Jesus and did not regard him as a regular first-team player.

    Partey and Odegard continue to flatter to deceive showing also why their previous teams were delighted to take the money for them.

    A stark difference between Wenger and Arteta is that Wenger brought in underachieving mediocre players from other clubs and turned them into world stars.

    Arteta has brought in mediocre and underachieving players and has told them into even more mediocre underachieving players.

    Yes, I have made no secret about my antipathy for Arteta, but I really do feel that I have every reason for it and no reason to change my mind.

    We will never find any jewels by buying in second-rate rejects from other teams, and if we do, Arteta will turn them into lumps of coal.

    Our only hope is to produce more Sakas and ESR’s from our youth project, but, of course, Arteta does not want them because they are not “his” players.

    Leopards do not change their spots and it is clear Arteta will never change his methods and will never be the great coach so many wishful-thinking fans consider he is already.

    I do not expect my views to be popular but at least I am keeping my eys open,

    (PS I did not watch today’s game and cannot comment on it although I see we had 70% possession and managed 3 shots on target against 7 for PSV)

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  8. Although I agree with jjgsol I have one caveat, I think Mikel seems to be one of those lucky managers. He joined ARSENAL at a time he knew the board would give him time and could mess up for the first two and a half seasons.
    This season I have never seen an easier set of fixtures to start us off and to add to that we seem to be playing teams at the right time.
    The first eleven are undoubtedly better now but who knows whether the players who were left under Uni could of achieved with another manager and a few top additions.
    We cannot just right off the money given to Mikel is the most given to any ARSENAL manager and probably a higher equivalent to when we were called the bank of England club in the thirties.
    As we go on winning runs I have been trying more and more to like Mikel and certainly enjoy it when we win but there are still things there that cast doubt on his chances of being successful long term.
    However a loss away in Europe against a good side with a good home record is not a black hole especially when if we win the last game we will top the group and it will be struck from the record.
    For now we need to concentrate on the league and apparently a much improved Forest side.

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  9. But what is the quality of the players that we are signing?

    We have spent almost as much as Man$ity in recent years, but the players we have bought have, in the main, been overpriced and overrated.

    How many of them would get into the Man$ity team?

    Indeed, we know that 2 of them couldn’t and they could nto wait to cash in on them.

    One expensive purchase could not get into the Real Madrid team, not even on the bench.

    Over the years I have supported pretty useless managers like Billly Wright and Don Howe, simply because they were managing Arsenal and, even though performances were generally mediocre, with the occasional great ones, I approached each game with eagerness and “suffered” when we lost.

    Arteta’s conduct in the way he treated the older and more experienced players has so sickened me that he has completely spoiled Arsenal for me, so much so that I approach each game with a level of indifference I would not have believed possible bearing in mind I have supported Arsenal through thick and thin (and there was a lot of thin) for 60 years.

    I now care little if we lose and hardly register anything when we win.

    I fear that the chances of Arteta leaving are slim so my indifference will simply increase.

    That it took him such a short period of time to destroy Wenger’s legacy and to turn the club into a hateful and malicious one is evidence of the awful influence that he and I fear Edu have.

    The longer they stay the worse it will get.

    Those of you who see things differently and who view Arteta with your rose-tinted glasses, enjoy it whilst it lasts because when the s..t hits the fan, I suspect will be rather nasty.

    My only light at the end of the tunnel is that some club chairman sees it like you do and lures him away to destroy another club.

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  10. Speculation last week that the squad was stretched with the injuries to ESR, Elneny and Zinchenko was more of a statement then a guess.

    Those concerned about Albert were probably incapable of acknowledging that Mo has outperformed Partey for two seasons. Mo’s injury is the problem in midfield! And they probably cheered on the sale of Willock and the loss of Niles etc.

    COYG.

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  11. There may have been some easier fixtures but I think I’d have preferred the Utd and Chelsea fixtures to have been right at the start of the season! Chelsea a different team now compared to the one seen in preseason.

    I don’t entirely agree with JJ as I have seen improvements and a commitment to a better all round game, some play through the centre, yes obviously trying to blitz opponents but also some signs of the ability to hold onto the ball when Partey isn’t having a tricker game. his better form this season is fading atm though based on last season Arteta might’ve ignored a fit Elneny.
    Yes Arteta is stubborn and might’ve overplayed Tommy at LB but then again that could be the right choice for the tough Chelsea contest. Forest up first.

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  12. For me it will be a healthy* return if this squad get through to the the WC break with no more defeats in the league with players returning after. And no injuries to players at the WC! *I’m not sorry for the appalling pun it is nearly Halloween.

    Will be a real test for all the managers, Arteta included, gauging how or if to rest players after the WC.
    Ian explained why Forest will also be a test. They’ll have watched the recent games. I hope Arteta is less sluggish in his variations if required. COYG.

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  13. Mohamed Elneny back in full training

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  14. Seems the teams who played in Europe struggling a bit so far this weekend.
    Onto the Jjgsol post, treatment of older experienced players, not sure who you ,mean? Auba? Willian? Cedric? Ozil was brilliant but ain’t now. We don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. Auba did well for us for a while, got a big contract, then his performance seemed to deteriorate.
    Spent as much as Man City, you are using a recent spending, they have been doped for long enough to sustain a top quality team and their lofty position enables them to get players near the end of contracts relatively cheaply, eg Haaland £60m
    You say you hardly register anything when we win, noted and fair enough , but , these days you only post on here when we do badly, as regular as death and taxes, and Kane pens against us.
    Artetas conduct? What has he actually done wrong? In a pretty healthy position for now? Full stadium? Good atmosphere? Young players developing?
    The club is hateful and malicious? Really? Just seem like a football club rather than something truly hateful like Vladolfs regime to me, but would be interested to hear further your views on that? I personally know two people who the club have looked after in very adverse circumstances and taken no publicity, they do a lot of work in the community trying to turn kids away from gangs, hateful?. Unless you know otherwise?
    Destroy Wengers legacy? I see quite a few young players, who can play some decent attacking football. Those who view Arteta with rose tinted glasses, well, that includes Mr Wenger himself, in numerous articles recently , he expressed being impressed with Arteta and ,mentioned how this team could make a title challenge?
    You can view the club how you want , but if you are waiting for another Wenger, I wish you a very long life, as Wengers main rival, SAF declared , he is a complete a one off. SAF had to enlist the football establishment , including the media and referees to take on Wenger, that’s how good Wenger was for us, wonder of some of that remains. But I know you see no faults in the referees JJgsol.
    Arteta is not another Wenger and never will be , times are different, every team in this this league has access to top, top players and staff, nobody has exclusive scouting access to a country or continent, there are no more Tuesday drinking clubs to be dealt with.
    If you are waiting for another Wenger, you will be as disappointed as you sound on here, Wenger was a one off, he has gone, if he ever comes back, it won’t be as coach/ manager barring something pretty out there.
    But on a positive note, I have been to several games this season, the atmosphere is rocking on what I have seen, there is clearly a younger, more enthusiastic crowd evident.
    When the shit hits the fan? Sounds like you are waiting for that? As is say Wenger ain’t coming back even of it does.
    Sorry to call out an individual, but just hope things go well tomorrow and there is no reason for a jjgsol post, but if they don’t, will still back the team

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  15. COYG

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  16. Arsenal: Ramsdale; White, Saliba, Gabriel, Tomiyasu; Partey, Xhaka, Odegaard; Saka, Jesus, Martinelli
    Substitutes: Hein, Tierney, Nketiah, Holding, Cedric, Vieira, Lokonga, Nelson, Marquinhos

    only Zinchenko missing from Arteta’s preferred starting 11

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  17. Nice start. Hope we don’t try to hold on to one goal though! Time to kill these games off…I also hope Jesus gets on the score sheet today, he could do with a confidence boost. And Don Howe wasnt useless.
    COYG!

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  18. Martinelli gave us an early lead, we should have scored one or two more so far too, Saka has been kicked from pillar to post, and has come off injured, refs a disgrace, Nelson on.

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  19. Making hard work of this.

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  20. HT: Arsenal 1-0 Nottingham Forrest

    Martinelli with our goal, we should have scored more early on, Saka kicked out of the game, we then got sloppy and gave them some chances, level has dropped. Need to up it up at start of second half

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  21. 2-0 to the Arsenal, Reiss Nelson with the goal at the second attempt

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  22. 3-0 to the Arsenal, Reiss Nelson again, come on you gooners

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  23. 4-0 to the Arsenal, Thomas Partey, easy easy easy

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  24. Tomiyasu and Martinelli off

    Cedric and Vieira on

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  25. we play Chelsea next week, we currently have a 10 point lead over them, win next week and we really put a massive gap between us and them.

    We currently have a 15 point lead on Liverpool

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  26. Xhaka and Saliba off

    Nketiah and Tierney on

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  27. 5-0 to the Arsenal, Martin Odegaard, keep on scoring lads

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  28. FT: Arsenal 5-0 Nottingham Forrest

    Martinelli, Nelson x2, Partey and Odegaard with our goals

    a fine win to go back top of the league, an open up a big gap on some of our top 4 rivals.
    only downside is Saka kicked out of the game once again, the pgmol are a disgrace
    Tired team, whose tired.

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  29. Thank you for your response Mandy Dodd.

    As you have been one of the prime apologists for Arteta a response from you was expected and you did not disappoint.

    There is little point in going through your email point by point, to show you where you have either misunderstood or misread what I said.

    However, on the subject of Ozil, my memory tells me that from when Arteta was appointed until the lockdown, Ozil played in most if not every game and did well.

    Clearly, something happened in the lockdown, either simply his refusal to take a pay cut without a proper explanation as to what was happening with the money to be saved, or some disagreement with Arteta or both, so that when we resumed after the lockdown, not only was Ozil not in the team but not even in the Premier League squad.

    Bearing in mind that even with his reduced output, he was still the most skilled midfielder we had (and frankly, that includes the players we have now as well, in my honest opinion), I regard that exclusion as being nothing other than maliciousness and spite. If you see it another way, you are entitled to do so.

    However, this conduct is not restricted to Ozil, we have seen it with other players as well.

    Excluding senior players from the EPL squad is something that we have seen under Arteta but nowhere else in the league.

    For my part, apart from Saka and very occasionally ESR, I do not see too many players from the academy getting even a chance, let alone playing on a regular basis.

    Even Martinelli, who has been excellent this season, hardly got a look in last season.

    In case you have not fully understood me, Arteta’s methods and conduct have so put me off the team that, even if they played under him like the Brazil 1970’s team and won every match, I would still, feel the same.

    For me, winning is no longer everything.

    I am sickened by his actions and his antics, so I trust you will forgive me for feeling as I do.

    If you wish to enjoy Arteta’s Arsenal, then please do so. I will not.

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  30. Excellent stuff best second half we’ve played in a while.
    When I get a chance I certainly want to comment on the discussion between jjgsol and Mandy, both made some excellent points.
    It is important we give credit for the good things but not blank out the bad things that has happened.

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  31. Thank you Jjgsol, a very considered and reasoned post, and it has to be said, some valid points.
    Of course you have perfect right and reason to view Arteta and the regime as you do.
    Ozil, a conundrum, he is one of the best players I have ever seen play live in his pomp, as you say, something maybe happened and none of us are sure what it was. In the end , I just found him frustrating, a talent like his but he looked half asleep in some of his latter games I saw. But I will remember him at his finest.
    Yes, agree with you , I am a bit of an Arteta apologist, I just want the club and everyone within it to do well, in my view he is doing just that, although it could be argued it took a while, both the managers and the club itself have made mistakes post Wenger, as they were bound to, in my opinion at least, how does anyone follow someone like Wenger?
    I guess I get frustrated over a perceived inability to move on from Wenger, not because I don’t miss the guy, was just watching his docufilm last night, and it bought back a lot, just don’t think it leads to a happy life as an Arsenal supporter. I am here referring primarily to a couple of people I know rather than yourself, as in reality, all I know about you is your posts on here, though very interested to hear how long you have been following the club and all the managers you have seen come and go.
    I do enjoy Arteta and this team, I think the atmosphere around the club has improved, and I personally think they are going to be pretty good in time, but you have eloquently explained a perfectly reasonable alternative view , so you will be getting no more BS from me on here, promise!

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  32. In answer to your query, I have been a supporter for around 60 years.

    The earliest manager I can remember is Billy Wright. So I have seen all of them since then.

    I can guarantee we have had some truly awful teams and players in that time, the worst being a winger called George Johnston and yet I recall seeing him score a great goal, I think in an awful home defeat by Leeds. If my memory serves me right I was one of only about 4,000 at Highbury at the time as there was some big match on TV.

    Those supporters who started their supporting life with Wenger should know how lucky they were.

    I suspect that the happy atmosphere in the club only goes as far as the results stay positive.

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  33. Excellent win today and great to see the team doing so well and we are getting to the stage when if our rivals keep doing their best to drop points we will be in a fantastic position for top four even before the more difficult second half of the season. I know if a good team goes on a good run they can make up ten points simply in the run in but to imagine three teams doing it would be more difficult.
    Now let’s address some of the issues being discussed, I know we are doing really well and at our best we look really good and the really high press was brought by Mikel from Pep which is making all the difference at the moment. However we can’t just ignore the things that have gone on at the club.
    The club basically shit on its most successful manager in its History, showing a very honourable absolutely no respect whatsoever. ARSENAL were always a classy club but because of the commercialism of the PL and the instant fans the club’s reputation has been severely tarnished. That won’t change because we win a few games.
    Next we must remember the abject failure of Edu’s early signings and the disastrous senior player policy. It was only after this backfired so badly that project youth was employed and even then all brought players and no real enthusiasm for our academy players. Saka, ESR and Martinelli had all played before Mikel’s arrival and decent players like Joe Willock were let go.
    I have seen managers go in to a club and try and stamp there authority on teams and phasing out olders players but the Siberian technique employed by Mikel I have never seen so viciously applied and to so many players in such a short space of time. I believe this wasn’t necessary and has cost the club’s millions we could have spent elsewhere. This cost and the cost of buying new players is a luxury Mikel has enjoyed which only the likes of city and chelski managers have enjoyed in such a short period of time.
    As for the atmosphere well remember the atmosphere was so toxic for years at ARSENAL because the club allowed Arsene to take the blame for everything and didn’t support him that anything different was a relief.
    We have gone from the home crowd booing players names as they were read out before the game to the traveling ARSENAL fans singing we’ve got our ARSENAL back when a mainly Arsene team smashed Fulham under Uni.
    The crowd weren’t fantastic when Mikel took us to eighth so look let’s no suddenly believe football started this season and everything is ok.
    This is obviously a transformational season for many of our rivals and we couldn’t of asked for a better fixture list to start with and Mikel is still making tactical mistakes on the field.
    Of course we should be enjoying being top of the league and on days like today dream of the world but we can not forget reality and think everything has been ok.
    Personally I didn’t get to see Billy Wright but a mate told me after being such a hero for England he was such a bad manager the ARSENAL crowd went on strike (I think against Leeds) and recorded the lowest Highbury crowd.
    As for Don he was a great servant to the club and he introduced loads of youth players to first team football and set the ground work for the GG era.
    As a fan you need to love your club and that’s not all about winning which is why we have 92 club’s and such a fantastic football pyramid. Once again the words Arsene said when he left was absolutely correct.

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  34. Billy Wright, sounds like a classic case of great players not always making a great manager?
    my first manager as an Arsenal supporter was Terry Neill, had a bit of a mixed record I guess but there was always that FA Cup win and Juve away.
    4000 at Highbury!
    I know the results help, but I do detect a younger crowd there who seem pretty enthusiastic, but maybe that’s just me.
    Arteta is certainly single minded , but he inherited what turned out to be some pretty serious signing mistakes under Don Raul and whatever he was or wasn’t up to . He may also have been instructed to reduce the wage bill post covid, it has certainly been reduced whether for new signings or orders from above, though the owners have certainly spent on players.
    Take your point about the senior players Ianspace2014, but using Auba as an example, it was Arteta who gave him the bumper contract , but he just wasn’t performing for whatever reason. Barca seemed to get rid of him as well pretty quickly. Auba, what Ozil became, Willian, can see why he wanted them out. Perhaps developing young players is just Artetas strong point, judging by this team and what we read from the his work at City?
    Arsene being shat on by the club, no disputing that, but that’s on the club, not Arteta, also suspect it was down to the growing influence of JK who may have been spooked by the toxicity at the time.
    Wengers words are obviously worth heeding, I wish he were back in the game properly somewhere, he is too good for a grubby organisation like FIFA even if he might want to fight the good fight from within.
    Arteta is clearly absolutely ruthless and single minded ,but though he isn’t at that level yet, many of the best of them often are. it seems if a player, or even a member of the backroom staff crosses certain lines with Arteta, or does not or cannot perform how he wants, they are out , whatever the cost , and the club seems to back him. Think “ non negotiables” is how he neatly describes it. Perhaps he is harsh, some might say too harsh, but managing a bunch of young multi millionaires can’t be easy.

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  35. I agree with some of what you say Mandy but as I said before he is not the first manager to have had to overhaul an ageing squad or indeed one that didn’t fit his philosophy. The point here was it was not only disrespectful to the players but lost the club crap loads of money.
    I believe the club backed him because if they hadn’t, after the short term tenure of Uni, they would of had to admit failure. Mikel arrived at a time when he was almost unsackable for a certain period of time. The majority of managers simply do not get that at big clubs.
    The other point I have to challenge is the development of young players, there is still no evidence that he is strong in that area.
    The two areas he has been strong in is A) teaching the Barca high press and getting the ball back quickly and B) the development of squad harmony these two things cannot be argued.
    I still think we haven’t been tested as a top quality side yet so many of the answers will lie in the future.

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  36. Do you ever get the (no real concrete evidence just speculation) that Unai was just being used by the club? It hadn’t worked out at PSG, so in some ways he failed to become a major haul CL manager/coach(whatever), and some Arsenal were desperate to get back into the CL and hoped he would win the EL (having been successful in that competition) rather than rely on a top four finish? My own thought is that he was not ever going to be long term.
    Sometimes I feel a bit irritated that Wenger wasn’t given the funds or slack he deserved, (but humans are convinced they are right) but the context changed after he left, on the field and in the background of the club, and outside in the slaggosphere of opinion.
    I find myself paradoxically feeling like jj, but knowing that Mandys thinking is much healthier. I just don’t see Arteta as a major player, it’s nice to be at no1 but there’s such a long way to go. And even if we make top four, and go back in the CL, we are still more a bottom of the group stage styled team. Seems like a massive Everest styled mountain to climb to get back to where Wenger basically left us. But who knows not me for sure.

    Aside of the PL itself all the cup competitions seem a bit jaded? The excellent idea of inclusivity in this context seems to swamp it all and quantity seems to grind potential quality? But I have no ideas other than reducing the number of teams taking part (and that’s not going to happen as money is way too important), so my complaints are shallow and invalid.

    There was a time even 40 odd years ago that playing in ‘Europe’ (odd that Britain doesn’t see itself as European, wtf is it then Atlantis? No country on the continent sees itself as European first, and its state second either, in fact its bloody insulting to them to be labeled ‘European’ as some blanket term for countries that are ‘over there’) was really exciting, now its doesn’t seem that way, at least not for us. And Ronaldo!

    But its horrible to support a team that you don’t love as you did, but flux is a turd to deal with and The Arsenal is a stream not an unchanging force.

    Maybe Arteta’s gang aren’t even interested in seducing the disaffected,and are happy with new blood? Cautious they must be aas all things changed, and age.I just hope when end up with something and not another season of Viel Lärm um nichts.

    Footballs fkn weird. Its batshit crazy, its really is.

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  37. There has been a endless pool of people waiting to take up season tickets etc built up over Arsene’s time at the club.
    Basically the club could fuck most fans off and they could replace them ten times over.

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  38. the u21’s v crystal palace is live on arsenal.com at the moment, 1-1 early second half.
    find it odd that a couple of lads who have been unused subs for the first team in EL games recently are only subs in this game, Edwards and Cirjan. Would have thought this would be a good game to see what they have.

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  39. I see its over 14 years since a black referee took charge of an EPL game, U Rennie, May 2008.
    I wonder how long is it since a London based referee took charge of an EPL game too.

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  40. But still top of the league just the Men and women’s first teams

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  41. Eds
    The pgmob can find a willing official from The Land of Oz from the farthest side of the world.
    But no local Football officials from Europe’s largest City(?) which produces Footballers like Saka, Sterling and Kane?
    Very little punditry of the second half performance variation will acknowledge the Home/Away split. There are the natural advantages for any Home team, all know the score, and then there is the pgmob. With the Home crowd paying attention for example Jesus was allowed to receive the ball with his back to goal.
    Can speculate there is a negative Handicap, but on the plus side recently City have also been an unlucky team. The neighbours have been the opposite and along with their points haul so far means they could be in a good position at the halfway stage.
    Chelsea next. And although they had a big defeat it was Away, and although Arsenal memorably won this fixture last season it’s pointless imo predicting a result in this derby.

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  42. Nelson played in the first team when Arteta first came in.
    Will he get more minutes now this season?
    If he was ok to come on in the PL could Saka have been spared kicks in the EL? have injuries and fitness been a factor? I hope he plays more if for no other reason but to rotate the young wide forwards who can’t play every game this season.

    Partey enjoyed the clearing in the Forest midfield. Although everything was in his favour it is the kind of performance that could underline the growing partnership with Xhaka over recent times, and that Mo should be decent cover when fit.
    As almost all here said during pre-season it is a good squad. And it is exciting to see them top after 12 games.

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