Good afternoon Positives,
Got your breath back yet ?
Nor have I – What an afternoon !
Of the game itself ? In contrast to a number of recent games we started well, brisk, with sharp passing and movement and throughout the first half it seemed just a matter of ‘when’ we would crack the Burnley defence and certainly not ‘if’. Ozil looked fitter and more mobile today than he has been in months and Iwobi’s touch on the ball was superb at times. Fair play to our visitors, they did more than put ten men behind the ball but we were clearly a yard faster than them and a split second quicker. They clung on, no doubt slightly relieved to trot into the dressing room still even.
A predictable first half then gave me no clue as to the tumult that was to follow. There was not even a small cloud nor the beat of a butterfly’s wing to alert me to the 45 53 minutes of imminent uproar, to enjoy, endure and finally emerge from bruised but triumphant. It was a game to savour, but only with hindsight. To live through it was to tour the circles of footballing Hell.
The second half had so many pivotal incidents, an almost unique catalogue of controversy and contortion. You could sense after 50+ minutes, and still with no goal, we were beginning to get a bit more desperate, and not in bad way. Events unfolded!
First, we had the Mustafi “penalty”, and then we had the Mustafi goal. A good finish from the influential German and, in the context of the game, what should have been the decisive strike. Burnley’s heads dropped. The visitors appalling away record ( P9 L8 D1) heading for another frustrated notch BUT NO! Within five minutes we had a third twist of the sunlit drama;
Granit, Granit, Granit, Granit, ……………Granit! You can’t do that, you just can’t, without risking the red. My little Swiss chum, the officials have their eye on you. I know Mr Wenger will be discussing the matter with you and your parents this week.
From smoothly controlling the game with a deserved lead we were firmly on the back foot from the 65th minute calamity. The light blues clearly felt they could get something and it required a solid defensive performance hold them at bay. But we did. They never really opened us up. Kosc always had a boot in or Monreal his head in the way, Petr calmed the scene. By the time we got to the 90th minute , and even with 7 minutes added time to suffer, I thought we had the points, a scruffy 1-0.
BUT NO! Two penalties in time added on. Two for goodness sake. Le Coq clipping Barnes’ knee, much to the apparent mortification of Mr Wenger, then Mee’s studs connecting with our French defender’s temple. Both correctly awarded by Moss, both despatched by shots straight down the middle of the goal, with the Chilean’s panenka the work of an artist very sure of his brush strokes.
Of our players? I thought Ramsey was outstanding. the Welshman had been playing well but the departure of Xhaka called for him to put in a decisive performance in midfield, to be the BIG player, and he put in that work. At the front Sanchez had a good afternoon even by his own exacting standard. As referred to above his slotting the winner in the 98th minute in such an important game is the work of a professional with no fear – magnificent.
Of the opposition ? The game ended with Dyche frothing at the mouth, and I admit I felt just a twinge of pity for the ( by then) ashen faced Burnley supremo, so close on two occasions this season, but no cigar at all. He must dream of Laurent Koscielny, poor man.
I am calm again now.
So on to Cup glory on the South Coast after a pleasant week of footballing inactivity. Enjoy the remainder of your Sunday.
Positively Arsenal 
Egypt v Ghana on Wednesday and Mo’s Boyd in need of the win to ensure a QF place in the AFCON
Whatever the result I’ll be interested to see whether Mo gets a break following the tournament- it’s probably been a good week for his AFC career
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Ed @7.29, also believe it was only an Arsenal manager done for taking bungs, when just about all of them were at it…..allegedly. Led to us losing a decent manager, some of the WOB have never got over his loss to this day
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I thought we were deducted 2 points and the Mancs 1 point after the so called Battle of Trafford Park ?
And debatable though it was at the time we collected the stiffer penalty because of a punch up earlier that season
Marvellous day, excellent season – pity George did not wade into BlueNose
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well Taylor seems to lay his hands on Wenger first, and all wenger does is push his away, and he does seem to tell Taylor where he can go
as I’ve already said, it has to be nonsense claims that Wenger called Moss a cheat, as no charges brought are in relation to any exchange with Moss, all charges relate to his interaction with the 4th Official, Anthony Taylor
Of course it could be possible that Wenger said to Taylor that Moss is a cheat.
by the way Arsenal have denied that Wenger said Moss was a cheat.
Is Anthony Taylor any relation to the Taylor who was proved to have lied about Wenger in that Sunderland incident
http://www.blog.woolwicharsenal.co.uk/archives/9152
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yes anicol you are right, man utd did have 1pt deducted, the incident with norwich had happened the previous season.
both CFC and THFC have been in front of the fa for player behaviour numerous times in recents seasons, and all they got was meaningless fines.
if you look at the Wenger/Taylor incident at Sunderland, you can see that it is not beyond reason to worry that Wenger could indeed get a massive ban, games, even stadium ban. The FA could, as they often do, follow the media tone on it.
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Fergie also used Runne Hague the Bing agent after GG passed agent onto him. GG also passed a famous goalkeeper and winger onto Fergie after deciding he had those positions covered a big mistake as it turned out some would say.
Andy is correct about the points deduction. Although as we all know the Arsenal fan base managed to find a place where the F.A. Could stick the two points.
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no charge for ashley barnes for this
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Ian, GG also passed a norwegian goalie on to spurs, and Brian Clough is said to have been a real bung master, but failing health scuppered an inquiry into him. Ex utd manager Ron Atkinson was also heavily implicated, but no charges filed.
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I’m surprised that Xhaka has not been charged with failing to leave the field of play in a timely manner
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Anicoll it might be no bad thing if Egypt lose and Elneny is back with AFC sooner rather than later.
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Oh come on eddy – a 21 man punch up in the middle of the pitch, fists flying, players handing out a damn fine kicking to a floored opponent, fucking war it seemed to me footbalastically. Don’t even pretend the vague handbag swinging (sorry anyone who carries a handbag) of recent Spud/Chavs contests is even remotely relevant. I’ve seen Sooty do Sweep with more violent intent.
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Spanish Gooner @ElSpanishGooner 9h9 hours ago
John Terry got banned 3 games for racism, didn’t he? A fine must be more than enough for Wenger then.
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Have another watch of the brawl. Might be you are massively over exaggerating it. Scenes in the Chelsea Spurs match glossed over by media every bit as bad. And it was Utd players kicking a prone Arsenal player.
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It’s a cultural thing – Be thankful he did not bite Taylor eddy
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I’ve seen it all now, Le grove has been called “Typical Wenger apologist” cos he said
Le Grove @LeGrove 14m14 minutes ago
Instead of suggesting draconian punishments and community service of all things, why not hit the root cause. Ill-informed decisions.
I just wonder how rabid a WOB the guy must be.
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RickyGee @GeezyPeas 15m15 minutes ago
Imagine the FA using Arsene Wenger as an example to grassroots of how ‘NOT’ to behave 🙈
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I will tomorrow Mark – good production of it with Winterburn, Kaiser Chiefs and some Geordie referee referee on You Tube – top top quality – well worth 2 points
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Don’t think that ref Taylor who tried to do Wenger is related to Anthony, but who knows.
According to a guy who sometimes posts on UA, and claimed to have given evidence over wengers appeal or helped out in some capacity , ref Paul Taylor….who tried to say Wenger manhandled him back in 2000 may have had an agenda. Apparently, despite being demoted for…lying through his teeth, Enfield Middx born Paul Taylor ended up working on ref development for the Herts FA…..pretty amazing really
Andy Kelly
06/01/2012 at 10:34 am
As I said commented on another thread, Paul Taylor is a Tottenham fan. More than that, he is actually a spiteful vindictive anti-Arsenal fan who gloated about what he had done to Wenger.
Link below
http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/17683
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Watching Arsenal beat Burnley with Arsene Wenger
By Pat Davison
Last Updated: 23/01/17 7:59pm
Arsene Wenger watched his side snatch victory at the Emirates alongside Sky Sports reporter Pat Davison
Sky Sports reporter Pat Davison reveals what it was like watching the dramatic finale to Arsenal’s win over Burnley alongside a sent-off Arsene Wenger…
It was shaping up to be a reasonably straightforward day for a post-match interviewer. Arsenal were winning 1-0, so Arsene Wenger – Granit Xhaka’s red card aside – was likely to be in a reasonably good mood.
Sean Dyche, although disappointed, would surely be able to take quite a bit from the way his Burnley team had performed.
And so, a couple of minutes before the beginning of injury time, I left my touchline position behind the dugouts and walked round to the interview room in the tunnel feeling quite relaxed.
Next thing I know, it’s 1-1 and Arsene Wenger is in the room stood next to me.
I’d seen Burnley’s penalty on our tunnel monitor and was watching the fallout closely, knowing my job had just got 100 times tougher and the interviews much more important, when the door swung open.
A steward (not the same one who stepped between the manager the fourth official), came in asking us to clear the room with a silently fuming Arsene Wenger right behind him.
It appears, after the pictures we saw of Wenger being sent off and then appearing to push Anthony Taylor, he headed (or was taken) to the first place he could find to watch the end of the game. Which turned out to be with us.
We didn’t leave. You can’t do an interview if you haven’t seen the whole game and, to be fair, although the steward had, Wenger never asked us to.
And so myself, the cameraman Graham and the sound man Neil were in a small (maybe 8ft by 4ft) room with the Arsenal manager watching what would surely have been the end of their title challenge.
It was awkward. None of us in the Sky crew spoke – we had our jobs to do and, to be honest, Arsene didn’t seem in the mood for small talk.
He paced around what little space he had in the tight room, occasionally chuntering.
And then he said, ‘Penalty!’ Ben Mee’s challenge on Laurent Koscielny had just unfolded on the monitor in front of us.
It seemed to take an age, with Wenger getting closer and closer to the screen, before referee Jon Moss did eventually point to the spot.
He then retreated to the corner of the room to wait nervously as Alexis Sanchez prepared to take the penalty. The tension in the room finally released as he sprung forward with a small punch of the air as the Chilean dinked his kick into the net.
A few seconds later it was full-time and our visitor marched from the room.
About 10 minutes later he was back to do an interview. He didn’t have to. The fact he’d been sent-off meant he was no longer obligated to speak to the media.
To his credit, though, he fronted up and I thought gave a really good, honest and contrite interview.
I’m not saying that he shouldn’t face further action because he made up for it by speaking well. However, I do think it was an example of how managers can use an interview to their advantage and do a bit of damage limitation.
I was told when I started doing this job for Sky to expect the unexpected. It was good advice.
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Apologies. A long time ago, It was actually a UA poster called Steve Webster who Andy Kelly revealed as helping expose Paul Taylor as a liar after his accusations against Wenger 16 years ago, scroll down comments in this link
http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/17677
Andy Kelly
05/01/2012 at 8:10 pm
There was another southern ref a few years back – Paul Taylor. He was worse than a northerner, he was a spurs fan who showed his bias by trying to get Wenger banned for 12 games. Thanks to Steve Webster (the first person to comment on this article) Taylor was found out to be lying.
My belief is that Arsenal & Chelsea only won the premier league as they were 20+% better than Man Utd. This is borne out by Walter’s figures over the last 18 months. It was like this during Wenger’s first 8 years in charge but he had a strong group of players.
What we need to do is get a sympathetic ear in the media to start asking some awkward questions.
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Sooty can be a wrong u’n
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Algeria finished 3rd in their AFCON Group meaning Ismaël Bennacer will be back at Arsenal within days.
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the disappointment is there for all to see, and the Burnley player is not too pleased either
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Positivistas: Nothing new from me so far. I am deep down in the lab doing some new research into officiating. This reliance on data is time-consuming. The alternative is chatting bull crap unsupported by verifiable facts. I refuse to do down that road.
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When we were boring
January 20, 2017 at 7:37 pm
Joey Barton is the only person I have heard talking up that proposed move
I said this before and I’ll say it again
‘Fake News!’
Sad!
Arsene Wenger denies Arsenal were ever close to signing Joey Barton but were ‘contacted many times’
Barton said that his move was ended by a red card in the 4-4 draw against Arsenal
Darren Witcoop Friday 20 January 20172 comments
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I’ve always like Johan.
That is all I need to say.
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Shotta
Untold Arsenal have all the data you can eat.
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Yup.
I’d humbly suggest that if wants to argue against the data they should go over there and have their fun. Most here have a reasonable and eminently rational understanding and appreciation of the “Arsenal handicap”, so we can all focus on the football right? Or is something, you know, stinking out the league leaving it hard for footy fans to chat about the footy? *coughs* I humbly advise that there’sno need to host that debate here. If you want to defend an official like Webb who can’t tell the difference between football and volleyball, (no need for the video link this time I hope IBSF) I wouldn’t recommend it!
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Shotta, @ 9:44
I know how much you love your statistical data to support or disprove some football issue, and very interesting it is too.
To fans who are not particularly mathematically inclined there can be a risk of data fatigue – not that I have seen that on Positive to be honest – but I wonder if you have thought of another way to add to, and use, your wealth of arsenal data.
What I have in mind is the subjective and meaningless views held on this subject or that by some fans, based on nothing more than a ‘gut feeling’.
For example, there are often heated arguments between fans as to who is the best player in their team, or who is the best goal scorer, and altho the latter is relatively easy to answer by counting the number of goals scored by the player concerned – the first question is subjective and is not so easy to gain a unanimous agreement.
By calculating some key data in a sequence of instructions, or a set of rules based on statistical analysis of their performances – aka an algorithm – the answer would be relatively straightforward to produce.
In a simple calculation of how much the players are involved or influence their teams by the number of completed passes they make as a percentage of the overall team passes, or other measurable data such as tackles made, or kilometres run etc a good picture based on data rather than unfounded subjective opinion can be arrived at.
I suspect you already have much of this data, or it can be obtained from various blogs – an algorithm using this would be fascinating.
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Henry B
Those type of studies are probably used and are useful for scouting analytics. And in physiotherapy, and in helping to work out diets, etc. The full monty.
However in a highly demanding athletic sport the best player one year will probably not be the best player the next, unless they’re someone who’s been tanked up on helpful growth hormones from childhood. For example Zlatan has probably been the premier target man about for a few years, but as he wanes Giroud has entered his peak years and is most probably the best ‘target man’ type of striker about these past two three seasons.
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Shotta. Look forward to that and interested to see what you’re looking into.
As for me, bullcrap it is.
Must say I’m pretty agitated by events. First by the text book example in the game of, until that linesman’s final intervention, leniency on fouls against is, no leniency on fouls by us, and, the big one, the very biggest calls not going our way.
It’s not like they invent things- it was a pen against us, Xhaka gave them a golden chance to show red- more that when situations or opportunities arise, so often, ridiculously often, those big calls don’t go our way.
For instance, in that ten years or so Utd conceded 3 pens at Old Trafford, there will have been all those other maybe’s, some very strong, with every one of them going in their favour, while we’ve conceded 4 pens at home in seven games. Hmmm
Then of course, the Wenger trouble. Someone who is not with me on my first point will view that differently. To me, it was a man reacting badly to intolerable provocation.
But of course in the official analysis, by the FA and by every journalist, that is not the case and as such will not feature in the deliberations. So right from the start, every step and all the conclusions will diverge enormously from the reality, to me, of the situation.
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That’s fair enough, Finsbury,
it was intended to give a hand to the hardworking Shotta as his 9:44 comment seemed to imply he presently had no [data?] news, and as the world is full of algorithms, which Shotta knows of course, and as he has a rich volume of data some might find the results interesting – or not, in your case.
Either way, it is an issue for Shotta, and not me.
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if sky, bt, bbc, etc are so concerned that managers are with their sideline antics causing a problem right down to grass roots of the game, then why do they just not show it, why is there a camera on that area at all, there is no need for it, viewers want to see the game, not the managers, the subs or the fourth official. Managers always had words with the officials, but before tv saturation of the game, it was rarely seen, so simply by deciding not to show it – just as they did with nudists running on the pitch – they can take the sting out of it, but of course its all just crap from them, they have no real concern for the effects it has on grassroots, its more fake outrage.
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Arsenal_RTs @Arsenal_RTs 15h15 hours ago
Lets make this clear. Journalists in the British press want AW to get a longer ban for actions on Sunday, than Suarez did for racial abuse.
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ARSENAL LADIES SIGN BETH MEAD
The 21-year-old prolific goalscorer has joined us from Sunderland Ladies, where she scored an incredible 77 goals in 78 appearances.
Despite her young age, Beth has years of experience at international level as she has represented England since she was 15 years old. She also represented England in the 2014 FIFA U20 Women’s World Cup where she scored a long-range goal against Mexico.
Beth said: “I am so excited to have signed for Arsenal Ladies and I can’t wait to get started. I want to win trophies with this team, and I want to learn and grow further from the top players that I will be playing with here. It’s an honour to be a part of this special club.”
Arsenal Ladies manager Pedro Martinez Losa is pleased to welcome Beth: “Beth is a very exciting addition to our squad, she is a young player who wants to win and achieve. She shares the same ambitions as us at Arsenal. She is an incredible goal scorer and I’m looking forward to seeing her development with us.”
This transfer is still subject to completion of regulatory processes.
Everyone at Arsenal would like to welcome Beth to our club.
Copyright 2017 The Arsenal Football Club plc. Permission to use quotations from this article is granted subject to appropriate credit being given to http://www.arsenal.com as the source
Read more at http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20170124/arsenal-ladies-sign-beth-mead#TjSLD3KZdF8GZDmC.99
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Will be interesting to see the refereeing we get in coming games after this bizarre media witch hunt. 10 game stadium bans? No precedent there, Arsenals lawyers would put a law suit on them for starters.
There are other teams some would want to fit into the top four…..and our manager and his teams keep getting in the way
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Eduardo @ 1:27 and 1:46
Thanks for the reminder of the U23s game on Friday, Eduardo — now in diary.
You are of course correct that those journalists calling for an exemplarily lengthy ban for Arsene are not just talking out of their rear ends, they are guilty of some quite disgusting hypocrisy.
None of them have ever lost their tempers under stress, and used the odd ‘bad’ word, of course, and naturally none of them have ever reacted against an officious individual going face to face and inviting a reflexive warding push to keep them out of their personal space.
Quite disgusting journalism. No surprise there.
[I trust I am OK responding to your comment. I think I was reprimanded earlier]
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Arsenal should have appealed Xhakas first red for all they were worth, they would have surely won….Moss was demoted after that game to the Championship, and no similar reds were seen since. I didnt think it would serve much purpose at the time, but was wrong on that one.
Moss may have been technically correct last weekend on Xhakas red and the Coq pen, but after some of the ref injustices Wengers team has expecienced over the season, and indeed during the Burnley game, (and I know he is not alone in ref injusticed btw) ….no wonder he reacted.
Still, time to forge a siege mentality in the team, Manager downwards…, will help with whats undoubtedly coming their way
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Henry B
I think fans will always have preferences for different styles and although metrics could help us to further understand why certain styles would have evolved in different climates and even Fat Sam can explain how he developed his playing style using analytics over a decade ago, I’d never want that facet of sport (stats have always been big, in the past and the present, in all sports) to override the emotional but to complement it:
If a kind old pastor from Burnley wants to tell me that Joey Barton is the best player he’s ever seen play for Burnley all I can or would want to say is:
“It’s a lucky thing that you got to see Ozil and Ramsey then eh?”
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< where metrics could help is to understand if Burnley were more ambitious then Palace or West Brom.
I think so. But I don't have the data and, I have to get back to work!
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Finsbury,
As I said, my 1:38 was intended to support Shotta, as I know he puts a lot into writing headline Posts.
My intent, if Shotta had other ideas for a headline Post, was to write something myself along the lines of using simple computer algorithms, populated with easily available data, to show one way or the other, solution to questions on a number of football related issues — but rest assured, your reaction has ensured I will not write Posts again – so thank you for that.
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Eduardo, the argument that it is about setting a precedent at the top to discourage misdeeds at grass roots is totally compromised anyway thanks to their attitude to serious foul play.
Refs need protecting, yes, but players, thanks to vastly superior numbers, even more so.
If they were even slightly concerned about reducing violence and harm they would therefore be obliged to take a strong stance when serious foul play which causes horrific injuries. That’s the rationale, that ,probabilistically, a strong stance here should reduce the threat of harm elsewhere. It applies, surely, to foul-play in the exact same fashion.
Instead they routinely do the opposite, out of line with the rest of Europe, where it is fairly common for a bad foul which causes a bad injury to incur long bans of up to ten games.
The authorities resist anything like that here with all their might, even, I believe when Uefa or Fifa (Think it was Blatter himself) asked them to reconsider following one of the horror injuries we sustained (Eduardo, I think).
(It made Hackett’s appealing to Uefa precedents for longer bans all the more sickening to me.)
The line here, all the way, is that you have to prove it was both deliberate and that there was intent to cause injury. In other words, an impossibility. Though I’m sure that would fall away instantly, amidst a sea of national outrage, if we ever have the misfortune to cause serious injury to a player.
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One man’s data analysis and the interpretation thereof is another man’s voodoo
Pass me a chicken
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I bet Shotta will be delighted to read that anicoll. [lol]
Serves me right for trying to be helpful, I guess, but Finsbury saved me from looking an idiot — well maybe that is taking it too far — one cannot help what one looks like. [lol]
Are you keeping well — do you need the chicken cooked or just as it comes??
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I am down to my last two hens H – hard times – I shall have to acquire a couple more point recruits to get egg production back on target – it is a bit cold for them at the mo though
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Henry I don’t think I recall writing that you can’t write any posts making suggesttions to people i just had the thought that with an infinite number of parameters to be used in making calculations, where could a fan draw the line.
Speaking of which I’d better focus on the parametrics of this wooden handrail. My colleague at the next desk is writing calculations and the software i’m using has lots of besoke written open source scrpits written by many kind and brilliant people, but sometimes you just need to use a chisel. And maybe a bit of sandpaper.
I wouldn’t pretend that the stats used to build this computer that I’m typin upon to be voodoo or a chicken. That would be strange. You plug it in, it works, someone did their job well! Same as thinking that the best computers are only designed by stats boffins and only the data handling capacity of a computer is important (please see Apple corp.)
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Imagine if our engineers’ mean calculations for failure and fatigue turns out to be more chicken then voodoo
We’d all be well and truly fucked. as well as living in a world in which nothing truly works. Which perhaps is not so far from the truth, so maybe…
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I am not at all convinced Fins – I remember Paul, a small octopus having an exceptionally good record of picking winners of Euro and World Cup games;
And hens are far brighter than a common octopus
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