Success On The Pitch, Unity Off It?
Trying to define what a ‘supporter’ actually is, is practically impossible, on a par with trying to describe what ‘freedom’ is in a liberal democracy. We can sometimes work out what it ISN’T, and, on Monday, celebrity PA contributor Mel O’Reilly did a fair job in isolating the ‘imposters’ by highlighting the extremist nature of their views – the ones that wish short-term harm on the club in the name of long-term gain.
But where does being a ‘good’ supporter begin and where does it end?
For example, it can only surely be ‘right’ to highlight the brilliance of the currently peerless Kos-Per partnership bang in the heart of the Arsenal defence. But to do so as a way of slaughtering the reputation of a less in-form colleague – in this case, Thomas Vermaelen – is surely ‘wrong’? Nonetheless, TV is (currently) not the favoured first choice player in this partnership despite being captain of the club and that is a little awkward for all concerned.
That the support for the club is split is practically self-evident. But even this split is not at all clear-cut. Some want Wenger out regardless of any other consideration. Others want Kronke out but Arsene to stay. Others would just like to see an ambiguous (and ever-changing) list of supposedly ‘deadwood’ players disposed of.
And plenty don’t really know what they want yet ‘feel’ we need some sort of change.
Some of us – and I’m looking at you George – get told off for calling the worst of such people ‘stupid’, get called out for ‘abusing’ those whose opinions are seldom troubled by the need to reference at least some kind of factual basis for their often libellous, poorly thought out remarks. Suddenly, WE’RE the bad guys!
So where, indeed, DOES it all begin and where does it all end?
My guess is – on the pitch.
I was incredibly heartened to read very recently (Friday?) that Arsene is interested in the possibility of signing a new contract with the club. Regardless of anything else it speaks volumes about his confidence – in the club, his colleagues, the club’s finances, the squad and the players coming through. I suspect also he looks at the quality of the opposition and is similarly encouraged even if he does confess to being somewhat daunted by their purchasing power.
The splits on the Arsenal terraces will probably be only healed by ‘success’ on the pitch. But if Arsene is now publicly non-averse to re-signing then I think it can only mean he is supremely confident of the club’s prospects going forward, and in the immediate future, to boot.
About a week ago I wrote a piece for PA which was variously described (and with some justification) as bleak. It was borne out of the tepid nature of the Emirates support for one of the biggest games of the season played a day earlier and a game – against the red Mancs – in which we went undefeated whilst appearing to throw away a largely deserved victory. Wandering around the club the next day on a tour of the place led me to contemplate life apres-Wenger.
Frankly, its a scenario I’ve long dreaded. As in the case of Brian Clough, I have always been of the view that Wenger would only be more fully – and widely – appreciated once he’d gone. And like the great Brian Clough, Arsene is largely unique. and pretty much irreplaceable., at least on a like-for-like basis.
I’ve had but one wish for our current manager these last ten years or so and that is for him to get at least one contract to serve whereby the previously tight fiscal reins gripping the Emirates-era have been loosened. It’s been no coincidence that many if not most of the current ‘great’ managers in world football have also been commanders of vast purchasing budgets. I still hope to see Arsene compete on a more level playing field. If his recent pronouncements on his contract are sincere then maybe we will get to see at least a version of this, after all?
I’ve no doubt the question mark over Arsene’s contract – will he sign or won’t he – will become THE running narrative of the next year or so. If we get a great start to the season then maybe he’ll sign up at Xmas, just to end the distraction of the debate. If the season ends up becoming one of the great battles for the League then maybe he’ll wait until the end to decide. I imagine he will take the nature of the support into consideration given that the loyalty of the Arsenal fan base has been shown to be ephemeral, at best.
My prediction is that either way, the split within the fan base will become less of the open wound than it currently is. A ‘successful’ season will see the majority of followers returning once more to the legions of ‘good’ supporters (which ever way that is defined). A season of disappointment could see Arsene gone and that same support lining up behind the new manager. For a while, at least. The king is dead, long live the king (so long as he wins stuff).
So that’s where it could all start or end. It doesn’t make me feel massively proud of some of our supporters but that aside, in many ways I can’t wait for the new season to start.
Because I truly believe that with Arsene Wenger at the helm, anything and everything is possible. All we have seen so far, as we mark our eighth year without a trophy, and we move beyond the post-Fabregas and post-van Persie eras, is the end of the beginning.
And one of Arsene’s greatest triumphs awaits.
That of him making ‘good’ supporters out of all of us.
Positively Arsenal 
A profound piece AA
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Good morning Andrew.. Nice piece mate.. You worry too much about what the vocal minoritie’s noise making ability. Let them yap and I’ll be damned if I would accept the know nothings back as proper supporters when we do have a successful run. Let the two faced buggers bugger off. To be a proper gooner one must be there in good times and the bad. Not that we are going through a bad phase. We are still very good.
Don’t let them back in so easily mate. As .Mel stated yesterday and we all have witnessed for a few years now, some of these dumb f•••• are wishing and Hoping for the club and the teams failure to achieve their goal. Get rid of AW. BRING IN A SUGERDADDY. TURN THE CLUB INTO A SOULESS MACHINE TO PROCURE TIN CAN AFTER WORTHLESS TIN CAN. that’s not support. Its not even bad support. Its sh••.. We have the best club In the world playing in the best venue anywhere and the place looks half alive. Instead of rocking. Bloody shame. Two weeks into the new season these pri••• are calling for heads to roll and denegrating their team and certain players in it. A nd they want these same players to give them blood and sweat. Pfffft. No wonder some of our players play to their full potential only away from home.
as far as TV is concerned i have been thinking for a year and half that he would be fantastic box to box midfielder and i hope to see him play more and more i n front of SAKER AND KOSHER. and he will get back on that horse full of confidence and be a remarkable captain because he is a natural leader.
Lastly, AW has work his a•• off these past sixteen years to get this club in a strong postion to face the future. With the boards proper backing and the players belief in him and the majority of the proper Fans behind him, he will sign an extension and Continue his fine fine work. The moaners and doomers can p••• right off. ARSENAL isn’t changing course now. Not after we have weathered the storm and come out stronger for it…. UP THE ARSENAL!!!!!!!
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Fine article AA and great comment from Goonerkam.
Having gone to about 500 home and away games prior to marrying “a good S’African” and emigrating, I know very well the bitchy mood of some so called supporters. Going back as far as the 50s, Nutt, Tiddy and Len Wills (OK so they weren’t very good) were not supported but jeered more often than not. Jon Sammels was another and of course later in GG’s day, we did have some, sometimes several oddballs. BUT… they were good enough to wear the Arsenal shirt. I would have given a rather important part of my body to have been as blessed.
If anyone could tell me of one gooner player who’s game has improved when he’s booed by the home crowd, I’d like to know who.
And, exactly the same applies to AW. The man is a genius (several flaws admittedly to my mind) and should have that classic nickname “Nobody” as in Nobody’s perfect.
AA is so right when he says that AW will only be truly appreciated when he’s gone. For me, let him sign a new 5 year contrast as soon as possible.
Keep the faith.
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I was arguing with a bloke on twitter last nigh(I have to do it there as here is so lovey dovey,and I quite like a fight) He recons that we SHOULD be winning the League and CL regularly.And Arsene was shit because we dont.
When I pushed him for an explanation as to why we SHOULD ,and I shit you not he actually said this “Because we are Arsenal”
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Bloody brilliant Andrew, obviously I’d like Arsene to sign up for years to come,got a feeling next year will be his last though for a variety of reasons,any player signing this summer won’t want to hear he’s only got 1 year of Wenger when he joins,hope I’m wrong though!- I wish all of our shite fans would bugger off,from the bannerwankers to the boo-boys to the twitter ‘experts’,Christ we’ve got some lovely specimens.
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Spare me the holy, pontificating sermons of Wenger’s greatness when he is gone. Let us exalt his his greatness as long as he is our manager. He has earned it and more.
Obviously my message is not for you AA nor the the rock hard crew at PA.This blog has been exemplary, more than I can say for many, many others.
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Good points Andrew. I share, like probably most of us here, much the same concerns and hopes. Arsene is a genuine one-off, and I’ve long suspected his singular approach and innovations won’t truly be recognised in his own time. I’d love to believe he could get a chance to operate on a more “level playing field”, I’m not sure this will ever materialize, I’ve become far too world-weary, but you live in hope.
I’ve used that phrase “we are the Arsenal” before, but in an entirely different context, to me it carries no sense of entitlement whatsoever, just an acknowledgement of who we are, what it means to be an Arsenal supporter, part of it all. I have become loathe to say it these days because of cretins like the one George has highlighted above.
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In the current state of English professional football where greed is king and the financial superiority of United, City and Chelsea are indisputable, Wenger has been Arsenal’s ace, the source of our comparative advantage. Obviously he is not irreplaceable but he is invaluable. When he goes is when his value is truly appreciated.
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Great Churchillian reference near the end there, and appropriate for the times Andrew. So glad to hear (read) you in more upbeat mood! Given the upheaval our squad has undergone in the recent seasons and the restraints under which Arsene has had to operate I actually consider this season a success already. Of course I’m hungry for more tangible success but when you consider that a football team is supposed to be part of the world of entertainment I consider myself fully entertained. Right up to the last minute. So the primary objective of the club, i.e to entertain, excite and thrill it’s fanbase has been successfully achieved.
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Like it and great response Goonerkam. Sadly football is run by money these days and without being bankrolled, the likes of Blackburn, Derby, Forest will never get to challenge at the top again. Arsene has worked miracles to keeps where we are now, long may it continue
Maybe the answer to the’library’ is to have a Positively Arsenal section at the Emirates
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Just had a look back at George’s twitter exchange from last night,le twat saying Ivan took him out for dinner and there’s only 14 posters on here! I bet it was a KFC and we’ve got at least 17! Quality not Quantity!
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I’ll never understand what provokes George to engage with such utter lowlife. He is more patient and tolerant than I’ll ever be. I only want to talk to Arsenal fans.
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Andrew brilliant piece. Outstanding actually. I almost wept. He is unique and a one-off. I dont think Arsenal will ever find a better one or a more loyal one. Part of me wants him to wave au revoir so that he doesnt have to deal with the insulting behaviours of the culture here. It will be our biggest loss.
Like george i also go round taking “scalps” and i find many arseholes who put all the blame on an employee without any consideration as to the difficulties of his task, the financial realities he has to operate under. The level of competition.
I found a mug who was essentially saying wenger should get the sack cause klopp has managed to win the bundesliga title on a lesser budget than the behemoth munchen. Hallo? what was wenger doing then from 96-2006? was he not winning the title of the english behemoth ?
our fans showed complete inability to grasp what the club has been doing the last 7 years. what dortmund is doing now, we did in the late 90;s and early 00;s.
i then find other mugs who dont even know the basics of football who want to comment and have opinions on matters they know nothing about. they call that freedom of expression. a bit like me having an opinion on laser eye surgery.
i can only hope that our strong ownership keep strong and ignores the savage peasants. some of them are even admitting that if wenger signs a new contract they will stop blogging, supporting, paying. GOOD!
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No Mel ,he said only 14 people read the blog.
The funniest thing was when he told me “I didn’t get where I am today by being thick”a
Whereas that is in fact that is the very reason.He is just not quite as thick as his readers and can come out with any old bollocks ,because no one is smart enough to get that its just bollocks.
A quick glance at the comments section would confirm that all of them would fail the entry test to the US army.And that takes quite some doing.
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Where would we be without Hunter?
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Ha george..youd probably still be back at the place i found you…i caused the divide!!!! lol… when i “insulted” the old guards “arsenal” …that giant who was competing with madrid’s 9 and milan’s 7 🙂
i have said it before…when calculating the uefa co-efficients…until 96 onwards teams like panathinaikos and keiserslautern and roma had a much higher rank than arsenal ever did.
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Really well written, AA.
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when kruyff, ( ajax – barcelona) and van basten ( ajax) wax lyrical over wenger and his philosophy …..nooone else’s opinion matters.
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Did you lot include me in 14?
Very erudite piece AA. Thanks…
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But goonerkam, my heart says the same as you!
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George, George. Please do not denigrate the US Army by suggesting that lot could get in. Standards may be low, but they’re not that low.
Great piece, AA.
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No Alabama,they could not get in .The minimum IQ is set at about 70 I think.It would take a group of three or four from LE Grove added together to make that figure
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George,you better be careful, my friend Alabama is a forensic scientist,if she so wished there would be no trace of you left!
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Good piece AA – what I cant get over is the obsession among some fans in blaming someone for every damn thing that happens. The player/coach/manager/director/owner needs to be identified, charged before all Goonerdom and bloody well punished.
We never, ever let in a good goal, crafted by a the skill by the opposition or because of a bit of bad luck. No – if we let in any goal it is because;
a) player A is rubbish and deadwood – always known it -get rid of him asap
b) the back 4 are not coached properly – Wenger/Bould/Rice have no idea about tactics/coaching manager
c) Its bloody Stan’s fault not investing in the team that we let that goal in
d) if the commercial team got off their arses we would not have let the goal in
e) the referee has been bought
Reference to Sammels brought a smile, bloke in front of me from about 1968 – 1972 only ever shouted one thing at every home game, win or lose, rain or shine – “Get yer hair cut Sammels”
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all the great men here
I think its time we stop paying attention to the idiots.
Lets talk about the positive things instead. Lets talk about how ramseys game has evolved, lets talk about what gibbs brings to the team, lets talk about what makes arteta the perfect midfielder, lets talk about how great mertesacker and koscienly are, lets talk about all the innumerable little positive things that we see in every single match.
Fuck the doomers i say, its becoming a little repetitive.
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H13: “when kruyff, ( ajax – barcelona) and van basten ( ajax) wax lyrical over wenger and his philosophy …..nooone else’s opinion matters.”
I’m sure Rinus Michels was up there doing a little jig when we beat Barcelona in London. His footballing philosophy ruled that night and it was the best game of football anyone has seen in ages. I’m pretty sure Jurgen Klopp draws inspiration from the old man as well.
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I want to see the faces of the anti-Wengerites when Arsene signs a new contract. Can some of you take some pictures and post them please?
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Mel, I would never use my powers for evil. Still, best to stay on my good side…(Insert banned smiley here)
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PG I sometimes wonder if you miss ATEEB.
I hope that I haven’t “sworn”
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ah AA what a great post….however I don’t agree with it all, I think the AKB and the aaa divide will take years to breech, probably long after the great man has gone. Do you not think we will be still trying to point out ARSENEs impact and brilliance to the unenlightened for years to come.
As far as a good fan of any club is concerned the only true discernible test is how much they hurt when things go wrong, it matters not where they live, how much they spend, or even what they know its all about the hurt they feel inside and therefore the wider the extreme when ecstasy fires through your mind and body.
H13 and George I always feel like we are the magnificent seventeen taking on the hoards and taking truth and justice to one small village at a time, bit melodramatic but there you go.
interesting listening to my sporting life with glen hoddle singing ARSENE’s praises and claiming Dein ask him for a reference when thinking about approaching him, he said ARSENE has changed the approach to coaching in this country.
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Some kind remarks and many great comments, always the best part of the blog, for me, anyway.
Thanks for reading – if you have five minutes it’s worth reading the following article from today’s Guardian newspaper. It makes scarcely believable reading and represents yet another appalling PR disaster for Liverpool FC. I won’t repeat it all here but aside from casting a shadow over the Merseysiders, it also shines a light on the exemplary fashion by which AFC conducts itself. The article additionally shows how LFC failed to capitalise on their years of league domination in a way Man U didn’t; it goes a long way to putting our own club’s achievements into some kind of material perspective.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn
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a_or_b – interesting point, certainly. To some extent, the degree to which a split perpetuates itself may in part be down to the relative success – or failure – of those that follow the great man. There are very few clubs that can point to sustained periods of competitiveness as that clearly currently taken for granted by many AFC observers.
Having said that, it’s the mentality of those prepared to attack the club and its manager at this time that is such a cause for concern. One can only imagine that the tolerance likely to be shown towards any of Wenger’s eventual successors going through a period of rebuilding or simple poor form, will become ever diminishing. Will our supporters end up the fan equivalent of Chelsea’s Roman; impatient, intolerant and incapable of taking any kind of long term view?
Hopefully, as others have said, we won’t be finding out anytime soon.
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At the pub this past weekend there was no room to seat so I asked to please share a table with three other gooners. They were kind and told me to bring a chair and share the table with them. Very nice guys all in their RED/WHITE copies and spirited too. The early early goal relaxed them a bit and the high fives were flying left and right. The conversation started at halftime and they were talking about AW, STAN IVAN AND THE TEAM. individual members and as a collective. Dear me, all in all they shared the same opinions on most topics. AW last year, more investment, Stan not the man, yarayarayara. I kept my cool and stayed out since it was just the media BULLSHIVEK being repeated and rehashed. Like STEWW I have run my course and have no patience getting into this line of talk again and again. Then they asked my opinion on things discussed. They were amused then shocked and interested to here more. Toake a long story short by the end of the game they were not talking the same bollocks. All three were saying what I said made sense and they left the pub uplifted by the win and more hopeful than when they had come in. They had a different perspective on STAN ,IVAN AND AW. they are looking forward to the future and a successful run at winning titles. The black cloud around their heads had lifted significantly. All it took was a little talking in logical and calm tone and all the crap they had been reading was suddenly not the gospel any more. There was other versions of goingons out there.
Made some good friends and they got me to promise them that I’ll watch the last game of the season at that pub on the same table with them. So all im saying is they are not diehard moaners and born doomers. they had learned this way of thinking and they are now on the way of unlearning what they had read and excepted as the truth. I’m so glad I met them and changed their thoughts on things. Specialy regarding SAGNA. I mean all three wanted to sell him in the beginning. Not any more..
Keep the fight alive… Tnx PA.
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On the subject of the “17”, where the hell is Frank? Does he reserve his passion and wit for PA only once per week? Come on Frank. Let us know you are alive and well.
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@ goonerkam
Well done.
“The black cloud around their heads had lifted significantly. All it took was a little talking in logical and calm tone and all the crap they had been reading was suddenly not the gospel any more. There was other versions of goingons out there.”
If only it was always that easy. I used to believe in the power of logic and rational argument, now I can’t be arsenaled.
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That article is shocking, AA. What about Liverpool FC’s responsibility to the local community? It seems so hypocritical of that club in particular.
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Funnily enough Andrew, someone just emailed me a link to that Guardian article about the Anfield housing fiasco. Absolutely shameful. A disgrace to a great club (and they are a great club) and their loyal supporters. No responsibility shown to the surrounding area at all. In modern football money is the only God and any sense of morality sees to have left the building..
Yet another reason I cherish AW.
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FunGunner – it IS shocking isn’t it? And I’m not one who is easily shocked but what a bunch of lowlifes?! And most of the people who’s lives Liverpool FC made such a misery for so long were (originally at least) their own supporters!
The other shocking aspect is how utterly incompetent their board have been for so long.
As Frank would say, “Dear oh dear” 🙂
[Best way to summon up The Frank is to insert a banned smiley btw].
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Andrew
Don’t be so down, they are only tge same as the 5 or 10 percent loony tea party or UKIP. i usually sit at the clock end for games (I like the away fans singing and I like to sing back LOUDLY). I’ve only meet one or two WOBs in years, the last one I met I threatened to deck him one after he was putting WOB stickers on the arsenal massive team poster ‘coz I wanna protest so I’ve a right to fucking vandalise AFC PROPERTY’ worse than spuds that lot.
In our Dublin supporters club there are a handful of WOBs but they are not at all popular. Their alternative version of reality is closing in on them and they are getting more and more desperate for attention- and guess who keeps them in the spotlight, our very own Fox News – uk media.
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Have to ask the owners of the businesses on the original Ashburton Grove Industrial Estate – about 60-70 businesses refused to sell – about Arsenal in the “community”
That famous Gooner John Prescott to overrule the planning inspector and enforce compulsory purchase orders on the premises – bad luck and all that – the stadium building and regeneration of the ex rubbish transfer site swung it – and so it should
Conn is a master of sanctimony
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All true ‘Coll.
Conn is also a dead ringer for Patrick Stewart, but I guess that’s neither here nor there.
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Greetings everybody. Yep, I always thought Ramsey was exactly what he is, a future captain no less is my honest opinion. How are you all? Nice piece today, and thanks for all the great comments every day. I do visit as often as i can, but so busy these days.
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Difficult to believe his big brother Alfie played for the Spuds – different hair
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Just about to post 1-0 to Wigan at half time.
Now swans have equalised.
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Am I hearing right that bayern are after our kos?
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Forgive me but I am hoping for Wigan to win tonight.
In my logic this means the Orcs would have to fight hard (any other style available to them?) against totts, and Villa will need to give the Chavs a run for their money.
Buy my twisted logic I also think they may not have to panic against us if things go bad for them in the Ems.
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Yes Zimpaul,
That would be our old pal Pep back to his old cuntiness again.
First Dortmund now us.
Can’t see Kos leaving us.
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O my. Will they ever leave us the f••• alone. Not koshelney. Just when we are finding the best combinations of players at different positions.
FUNGUNNER
TNX. I didn’t want waste time and energy really. Done it so many times. It gets tiring. But they asked so nicely and politely. You should have seen their eyes get widened. Who is this guy? How come he isn’t towing the same line as everyone else? I was hearing” right on” from two tables away. All in saying is in the absence of an alternative viewpoints they will just follow and repeat the party line. So speak up everyone. Through PA . In person. Any other method really. Don’t stay silent.
Its just that a minority of these fellas are set in their mindset and physically aggressive. Hope I don’t have to use my knowledge of kempo on anyone else again. Just a deep breath ,turn around and walk away….
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Oh heck. Missed STEWW S radio show again. Kaka.
Don’t tell him..
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What the cunts don’t understand is how the banks stopped lending between 2009-2012 and we had to keep the lights on by selling off our assets. Assets which would have never arrived at the club had it not been for Arsene Wenger and his network of super scouts.
Pep is shit out of luck, Zimbabwe Paul. The only way we’d sell Koscielny is if an absurd offer were made for him. Bayern are generous with their players, but they only bought Ribery and Robben long after they were established super stars.
And to think that the expert, sideline managers called Koscielny a failure after less than half a season at the club. It’s quite the compliment that Pep is snooping about for him. Him putting Messi in his back pocket did not go amiss in Catalunya.
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