Good morning Positives,
After two defeats in games in which we faced difficult opponents yesterday was a game I certainly had marked down as three points to the Arsenal and so it eventually worked out. The eventually being relevant as right up to the time-added-on+ the ‘Ammers were still in the game and could have snatched the equaliser. I was surprised at the 61% v 39% possession in our favour, it looked more even to me. If we were a bit unlucky not to earn a point at the Bridge so our claret and blue visitors will feel aggrieved that all their efforts were for nought.
Of the game itself the content of the post game comments on here was accurate. I also thought it was our worst display of the three games. Defensively we were shaky and better finishing from Arnautovic could/should have embarrassed us further. The right hand side of our football team in the first half worked well going forward. If the move broke down however, with Hector upfield, there was no cover behind him and the ‘Ammers raced in on our goal. Mustafi and Sokratis were confronted with 3-4 charging opponents and the tackles and clearances looked desperate. On the other side of the pitch Nacho did not suffer the same problems. In the final third during the first half our passing was also poor, with good ball wasted. It was difficult to pick put anyone who was better or worse than anyone else, it was just below average.
If the first half was unsatisfactory the second was better. Laca’s introduction gave a definite target for the ball being passed forward and he and PEA combined far better. We seemed to get a better measure of Anderson and Antoine and, slowly, a solid grip on midfield. Our new Uruguayan’s entry on 56 minutes I thought was important in winning that midfield battle. He is very tidy. As it was the first time I had seen Torreira live I was impressed. But he is sooooo short – He really is Alan Ball/Billy Bremner size !! When our second goal came, while it was as ugly as sin, it was deserved.
After that WH scrambled to get back into it, with pressure but no real killer punch in their attacks. The introduction of Chicarito, with his blue rinse, made the work of or back two that little bit easier. The Arsenal defence did enough to fend them off. The third goal was a little cherry on Danny’s cake, the reward for effort.
Of the Ammers I thought Antoine did well, and despite some wayward finishing Arnautovic’s goal was a peach of a shot. Jack was anonymous. If I had not been looking for him I would not have noticed him. A hard Autumn beckons for Manuel Pelligrini.
So three much needed points in the bag and AFC are on the road for two interesting games in Cardiff and on Tyneside.
Fear not for the future, weep not for the past – and enjoy your Sunday…
Positively Arsenal 
Thanks Andrew, good to read a positively biased summary after listening to the first half on the radio and following the second haphazardly on Twitter (🙄). West Ham seem to be a little bit mini-Arsenal at the moment – many new players, new manager, a fan-base not exactly in love with their owners etc, etc. And great to get that all-important win for our boys even if the unhappy ‘Ammers have to wait on.
I’m already sick to death of the forcibly rebranded AFTV continuing in their quest to get rich on the back of fan discord. How I’d love to see those greedy oiks turfed off the concourse and hounded out of Islington, full stop. Other clubs have fan tv equivalents of course, but it seems only ours is in the business of making us a laughing stock and it’s just not funny.
Ah well, enjoy your Sunday everybody; talking of ‘funny’ is the next edition of the Mourinho show on soon?
Reaches for the popcorn …
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Good morning Andrew. Very fair assessment.
Very nervy moments but this is a team still getting to grips Unai’s methods. Some of the criticism Bellerín got is harsh, he made some lovely forward runs and whenever a W/Ham player got a boot to the ball there was no cover defense. His a key passes even those out.
Unai’s changes did the trick again. Torreira looked more composed and sure of himself. Having Auba and Laca together on the field had us looking more threatening than having Auba and Iwobi. That is not a criticism of the younger Alex, just saying as a partnership they looked better.
We are on the board and on our way.. UTA
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Very good Andy, on the button I think, although I did think Xhaka had a good first half. But I nit-pick.
“On the basis of the 3 performances so far I hope everyone realizes that Emery is no upgrade on Wenger and Arsenal will be a midtable side at best under Emery.
Bye bye Top4 finishes. Bye bye to cup victories as well.
You read it here first.”
Rosicky, I don’t think anyone here feels or felt Emery was an upgrade on Arsene, but I think he is as good a replacement as we could have gotten. I do think we can challenge for a top 4 finish.
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Tks Arse or Brain
From the previous thread
Tks George
I respect your optimism but with such below par performances ( all 3 of them)
I am not very much hopeful.
Hope I am wrong but the football on the pitch has been lacking and poorer than what we have seen in the last 20 years of Wenger.
Also if you are admitting yourself that Emery is no upgrade on Wenger than how can we expect better results from Emery than we were having under Wenger? (Logic)
Also have you discounted the fact that we are still under the Pigmob regime and if by chance we started threatening to challenge the oilers United spuds and pool we will be shown the door sooner than later. The media criticism against Arsenal is another challenge.
May God help us.
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Chuffed we got the win. Only seen MOTD highlights so taken into account they may have been skewed but it looked, as Andy said on here afterwords, ‘hairy’.
Mentioned before, but my assumption was that whenever Wenger era finished while next guy may not crack the offensive side of things we would likely be less vulnerable in defence, particularly on breaks.
Very early but that’s not been the case so far.
It seems mostly a matter of space and numbers, and many or even most prem teams being quite well designed these days to defend in numbers and then spring forward on the counter. One of the keys is having one (or more) high quality players who can quickly carry the ball a long way, and looks like the Brazilian was that man yesterday. Arnautovic is also a good player
I’m far less sure these days about the right way to counter that (used to think it was largely a matter of having midfielders with sound defensive attributes between them, but it’s at least a bit more complicated, I now see)
Think one consequence of the defend and counter readiness and aptitude of opponents is that it dramatically increases need to be accurate and careful in your own attacks. Accuracy and care not exactly natural bedfellows with creativity, daring and speed so there’s a tension in play there, and a lot of pressure on skills (and minds, i guess)
Should be able to watch it later so can see how accurate the MOTD version of game was and if any of the Twitter hysterics were justified.
They- twitter folk- made it sound as though our defending was horrific for West Ham goal and didn’t give much credit to West Ham players when in fact it was expertly done by them and I couldn’t spot any big mistakes from the defence.
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I wasn’t expecting Emery to do better than Arsene, but Arsene did say he thought we only needed 2 or 3 new players for this set of players to improve. I hope we have them, and so I think Emery can improve on last years return.
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I reckon that’s fair, George, and I have similar hope.
In interest of fairness, that should be the main comparison- last year, then recent years (1-3,1-5).
The whole of Wenger’s span is relevant to an assessment of all he did for the club but not,particularly, to some Emery Wenger present day comparison if it must be made.
With that in mind, Rosicky, you wouldn’t know from your comment that we’ve had some very rough games and bad results against City and Chelsea in recent years (they mentioned in commentary our record at Bridge since the 5-3 game- think it was no win in 7 or 8 with only 2 goals scored. Quite likely last week it was closest we’ve been to win in that time) in recent years ; City we’ve tended to do better, esp at home, but not last year)
Even West Ham at home we don’t have to go back that far for a painful early season defeat.
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Looking at the game, it will be interesting to see both Unai and Pellegrinis sides in one year.
I thought we werent at our best, but neither were we at our worst, perhaps the same could be said of the Irons?
They had a few chances and if Arni had his shooting boots on then we might have been in deep trouble, also WH had some chances at the end which could have been embarrassing.
We showed moments of strength and great skill, and other times just a tad off real understanding. But will are sill in August. I dont see any AFc player outstanding, but neither do I see any AFC player a pile of. Each is finding a new way.
Gwen showed again how hungry he is, and the negatives will focus on him giving the ball away, but he does more good than bad, and hes only 19. Tor had some sweet moments too, but theres a lot more to come from him.
Personally i thought this might be a real classic, and was surprised at how WH collapsed after the own goal, we looked really good after that, confidence following, but it was more of grind at times, for both teams.
Im sure the trips to Cardiff and the Tyne will be so easy, maybe grinds again, but as long as we keep coming out on top thats fine.
I think that AW would even urge fans to get behind Unai, give him time and let him make the team the way he sees fit(personally) I think we waste a real amount of time in life comparing, each of us has out own voice and path to find.Theres to much pressure in the game on everyone, and Im not sure this brings the best out in anyone?
(ps) if you havent seen Moneyball, give it a watch, its a very interesting look into baseball(if thats your thing).
UTA!
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Rosicky
Apologies if I sounded harsh then. Looks like you are still hurting about Wenger’s exit. I have a lot of time for that as he deserves massive respect and loyalty.
On a logical level it seems best to try keep an open mind for now and be as positive as you can. Because what’s happened has happened and, well, it’ll probably be better for you.
See where we are after ten games
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Pretty gross seeing how things are panning out with Ozil’s absence yesterday.
Just looking through Arsenal news on internet and it’s being written up as Emery ‘claimed’ re Ozil. Basically a report, likely anonymous, from other side of world is being given equal billing to the manager’s words flatly denying that report.
Other outlets still running the report as a story.
Eurgh. I guess it’s small fry in the bigger scheme of things as this, unfortunately, is the world of news and information now.
Though as always within the smaller world of football news here, I feel we are being treated a little differently. It certainly didn’t deserve billing it got on Motd and, I suspect, all our other outlets are using that report the same way. They shouldn’t, obviously, and I don’t know if they would with other players and teams.
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Rosicky I take PG’s comment that Emery is not an upgrade on Wenger not him saying that Emery is a poor coach, but rather with respect to Wenger. Arsène Wenger ofcos is one of the greatest coaches in the history of the PL and that is a tough act to follow.
I think it is too early to discount us as top 4 challengers. Admittedly we haven’t look great thus far but we are a ‘work in progress’ so things are a bit ‘trial and error’ at present.
Besides Mancity and Liverpool, Spurs, Manutd and Chelsea has troubles of their own even though it hasn’t affected their results at the moment. So I won’t be writing us off yet.
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The most significant and useful thing Emery can do, probably must do, is to get players to do the simple things efficiently. The weakness at AFC last season and is making avoidable errors, particularly in and around the defence. We gave goals away repeatedly last season because of errors committed by experienced players who had no f***** right to fail at that crucial moment. AW admitted he was unable to explain it. I have no idea. Let us hope a new pair of eyes on the matter gets the mechanism working as it should.
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One difference in coaching style was the Arsenal bench yesterday. Emery is like a jack in the box and constantly shouting, pointing and calling players over for a hand-over-mouth conversation. His assistant (who is he?) was just as busy!
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If I was calling my employees “useless cunts” I would cover my mouth too
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anicoll
Were you in stadium yesterday? If so, what’s atmosphere like these days?
Watched ten minutes of ‘game of the day’ on sky and seemed a bit like crowd wait with baited breath for many a pass, with a slightly different quality of anticipation depending on who’s passing, slight groans, again different for different players, when a pass doesn’t come off. Unnecessary and wrong-headed if that’s environment for players.
Am i mostly imagining that (possibly because of my preconceived idea that there’s a percentage of twats- 10,20 whatever in there- who put themselves well above helping team) or is that how it is?
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The atmosphere is not 70’s roaring although it was mainly positive. When west ham scored there were the usual grumbles and blaming the usual scapegoats but then immediately as a whole the crowd sang come on ARSENAL.
Still the usual fire drill ten minutes before halftime and full-time.
I did have to tell one young lad off who blamed Hector for Miki losing the ball saying Miki didn’t trust Bellerin but once I put him straight he was remarkably quiet after that.
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Haven’t watched it all, but believe Michael Owen has given a bit of a game-changing interview for anyone who wants to understand toll injuries can take on players and, at the extreme, the reality of players who have lost much through injury but, for obvious reasons, cannot afford to let anyone outside their personal circle, including employers, know the truth of it.
There’ll probably be a backlash against him, as he has admitted he wasn’t at all right for last seven or so years of career and yet he said otherwise and took on new contracts. but anyone sensible should see the mitigation for it.
With that, my education about injury reality is probably as complete as it will ever be, and completely transformed from my ignorance as a kid, when I thought if a player was ‘back’ from an injury, they were back, with age the only big limitation on them and same expectations as before.
Giggs helped revise that view a lot when he said in an interview he never did a full sprint after 30, but this is bigger than that. Owen has apparently detailed just how big the impact was- having to avoid most of the situations he once excelled at *, deliberately placing himself in bad positions, not enjoying his career.
He’s done people a favour if they want to understand one of the central realities of the sport : just how important physical condition is and how much variation there is out there, partly inherent but often because of injury issues.
* I could never be sure, but suspected Podolski after the big hamstring injury tried to avoid situations which required sprints, which was a problem in a attack but even more so in terms of tracking back.
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Around me it was quiet Rich – everyone seemed a bit unsure what to expect in the opening few minutes. They say an early goal settles a football team down but by Gawd it would have quieted the crowds’ jitters yesterday.
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Cheers Ian. Good to know.
Could be that the sound on the game of the day thing on sky doesn’t reflect stadium atmosphere too accurately. i’ve thought that might be case in past.
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One good thing all afternoon was the encouragement Guendouzi received all afternoon whether what he did worked or not. He is well liked.
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By the way it’s difficult to comment on that post Andy as it was an almost perfect representation of the game, you need to try less hard in future to produce more conjecture.
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Don’t think West Ham are bad at all. Away to Liverpool first day is rough for a new, attack-minded coach and a bunch of new players. Like us they’ve had to find their feet tactically, but also deal with heavy blows to confidence.
Think we looked more exposed because of the ability of Felipe Anderson and Arnautovic. Felipe Anderson in particular should shine under Pellegrini. On his day he’s one of the best AMs in Europe, even if his day doesn’t come very often!
What is going to be interesting is how the players react to Emery’s man-management. One of the many things I liked about AW was how selections were unaffected by single performances or runs of form. It was like AW was holding up his end of a secret bargain, and I think players appreciated him for it.
Iwobi did well vs Chelsea but was not good yesterday and didn’t make it past half time. So what now for him? Quite looking forward to finding out.
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Rosicky all I can assume is that you have not been watching the last few years, what we have seen in the first 3 games of Emery’s era, are exactly what we have seen over and over in the last few years of the Wenger era. Unsure in defense, and short spells of great attacking football, both at CFC and again yesterday, we put in a spell of 10-15 minutes of great attacking football, creating lots of chances and having the opponents on the rack, but like so often in recent years, not taking enough of those chances. Also the team looking like a pressure valve had been released once we scored, the worry of the world no longer on our shoulders. also when we had more of our senior players on the pitch we looked more solid and more at ease.
Anicol our right side was our main attacking outlet all game long, and its clear that Bellerin has been instructed to get forward as much as possible, and as far forward as possible, he is not only going round the outside, but is cutting in then darting on to a through ball from Mkhitaryan and Ramsey yesterday, Ozil in earlier games.
With him so pushed up it means our wide midfielder needs to put in a defensive shift, that has been lacking so far, yesterday Guendouzi had a poor game, and I would suggest that his failure to cover to his right was the main reason why he was hooked, once Torreira came on, like in CFC game, it was noticeable how often he covered to his right, and this really took the pressure off Hector. Yesterday once he came on it helped nullify Antonio so much so that the hammers took him off.
Opponents have noticed that Bellerin is set up to push way up, so they have of course tried to take advantage of the space left by him. We either have to use our left more often or our midfielders have to help out Hector much more.
If I’m not mistaken Hector was heavily involved in all 3 of our goals, his cross deflected off Iwobi for Monreal to score the first, and on the second he played in Mkhitaryan whose cross was blocked and then kicked back across the area and we got in to score, and the third was a pass by Bellerin to Danny to score. But Twitter says he was shit, so what do I know.
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I think the Manuel Pellegrini the Ammers have appointed is the one who managed to turn a v average Malaga side into CL entrants on a shoestring budget BK – he is a good organiser o the resources he has got and make a team that is difficult to beat. Like us WH had a difficult start to the PL but Three defeats, especially the defeat at home to Bournemouth, need turning round. I guess when he can get his back 4 sorted out WH will begin to pick up regular points.
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Hector to Monreal for our equaliser was a full back special eddy – as you rightly say when Hector is up front, and linking up with Mkhi, who is covering the space behind them ? Guendouzi or Xhaka – Ramsey perhaps – the answer in the first half yesterday was no one !! If the ball span loose to a West Ham player from Héctor or Mkhi they’d punt it long to Antoine and suddenly we were wide open.
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Anicoll, that was kind of a cruel episode at Malaga. A Qatari (?) came along, invested millions initially, and then deserted the club in a huff over TV rights. I mean, he must have known what he was getting into in La Liga.
I loved Pellegrini’s Villareal – they over-performed and played great football, and produced Marcos Senna who anchored Spain’s 2008 mf, as well as Cazorla of course. His appointments since then have been tainted, partly because he was treated as a Heynckes-style stand-in for Mourinho and then Guardiola.
Obviously I can’t defend him if they keep losing, but I think he’s slumming it at West Ham.
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yes Anicol, and I think Emery taking off Guendouzi and bringing on Torreira was due to the cover not being provided for Bellerin. Sadly too many are blaming Bellerin for him not having cover.
As you say a full back special, and to add to that, did you notice how far across the pitch Monreal chased the ball or player when he was well up in attack, on a few occasions he was all the way over to the right side of the area, and on one of those times West Ham broke down our left and he was stranded, but Nacho is well liked in the fan base and with bloggers, so no hissy fits like they are having over Hector.
I would suggest that we, due to the need for more cover of our fullbacks, are very close to seeing Torreira and Xhaka as our midfield two. Matteo may have to be content with time from the bench.
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Rich
Tks u are spot on as I am still unable to digest Wengers exit. I still feel he has been forced to leave the club mainly by the Pigmob and secondly by the insane fans who didnt realize what they were up to. The non implementation of VAR was another reason Wenger took the decision to exit.
My opinion ie that if Wenger still felt he could continue the club should have allowed him to do so for his loyal services for keeping the club among the top in England and EU as well.
Anyway will keep my hopes positive for the season. Let’s see how thing evolve.
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“secondly by the insane fans who didnt realize what they were up to.”
I dont agree,(I don’t mean that in a nasty personal manner to you,just your statement) none of them were clinically declared insane,(its unlikely they would have been on websites etc writing if they were) they all had a vast amount of reasoned counter arguments on websites(for many years), and on the various forms of social media. Even in the mainstream media there were counter arguments.
I dont see how they didnt know what they were doing. They werent following orders.Nor were they insane, they knew quite well what they were doing, neurotypical they werent, but insane they were not. What they did not know is the outcome of their actions, and no-one will ever know as things keep changing, but they believed that by ousting AW they would get their new Easter egg. But ethically thats no excuse as they too had no idea who would be the new manager. In fact many of them ranted and sulked more when their” choice” was rejected. What frightened me that these people thought they were “right” and doing “good”. Relativity is tough to deal with…
They festered and raged and blamed a man who had tried to organise(and gave to them) for them what they wanted,(like no other could recall, unless now really old) and carried them through a storm( the building of the new stadium) and onto more success, against greater odds and endless insult)which they chose to ignore, even though counter arguments were proposed time and time again to explain to them, they tried to convince everyone that anyone who counter argued was also inferior or “mad” or other insults. Its all online to see.
It was even stated that no matter who took over they would still be unhappy sooner or later.
If they couldnt see the context then what can be said?
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There is nothing wrong with both full backs being so far forward as long as if the ball is turned over midfielders slot in their place and in turn other players then follow the oppossision attacking midfielders who are arriving late. This is what the likes of Shearer and co don’t understand the basics of total football and the most beautiful way to play.
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just a thought, could the energy expelled doing all this pressing that our midfield and forwards have to do, be the reason why when we have the ball we don’t looked composed, or sharp, is Aubameyang lacking sharpness cos he is chasing about closing down defenders, is our midfield out of position to cover our attacking fullbacks cos they have expelled too much energy pressing high.
As someone said yesterday, its impossible for Bellerin to sprint 70 yards up field to help the attack and to then sprint 70 yards back when we cough up the ball.
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Andy @1:16
I’m glad Matteo is well liked and supported. So were Ramsey, Wilshere, Bellerin, Iwobi, etc etc when they were his age. For his sake, I hope his trajectory only continues in the upward direction, so he will never see what it’s like when the struggles come.
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NBC just aired a quite fascinating piece on refereeing that I recommend searching out and viewing if you can. It was a clip of the penalty decision for Chelsea in the FA Cup final and included all the audio between Michael Oliver and his assistant referees and the VAR, including Oliver’s speaking with the players. Mark Clattenburg was in the studio, and walked through it step by step. The clip was way overhyped by NBC, but nontheless fascinating. Whatever your opinion on referees, and I know there are strong ones here, watch this if you can. I don’t know if they’ll make it available as a link, but I’ll keep an eye out.
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alabama
Good point at 6:08. Thought something similar myself.
The weird thing with it all is that even if it doesn’t come naturally to someone supporting a player or all players, logic says you should do it in order to maximise chances of success (because it undoubtedly helps or at least doesn’t hurt players)…and the sort of people who go in most heavily for criticism…are the exact same people who claim to want success very badly indeed (and respond worst to defeat).
The decent thing is to support your players, and so is the smart thing, even if you have to pretend and show a bit of restraint.
I guess…logic isn’t king in a football stadium.
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Rosicky, don’t agree with you on everything, but will always respect your clear and huge admiration for the great man.
insane fans,attention seekers, VAR or lack of it and certain decisions, eg Mike Dean against West Brom, perhaps the antics of certain players, or ex players certainly didn’t help wengers cause, nor did the media, but ultimately, I suspect certain board members, maybe even with the help of Kroenke junior were able to twist Stans arm using commercial arguements. Of course I could be massively wrong and stand to be corrected, just the way I have seen it over time.
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Rich, I was also in the stadium yesterday and I would say generally speaking the crowd were reasonable, however, I came away from the game thinking ‘I fucking hate football supporters’! I got into a minor disagreement with my neighbour who spent the game berating Bellerin who could do no right as far as he was concerned. It’s going to be a long season!
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jeez if Bellerin who was heavily involved in all 3 of our goals could do no right, then God help the rest of our team as the season progresses. so many fans are no nothing cunts who think they know more than the managers, or coaches.
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Rich
Re: Owen and playing on with injuries.
Credit where it is due this link is the best account I’ve come across of what happened with Koscielny last season when he was on the pitch:
Playing through the pain, no it wasn’t our eyes deceiving us our senior and much admired and respected CB last season was limping his way through quite a few matches, the grimaces were not for show and it’s no wonder he struggled to look after or manage Mustafi
Account of the impact of the injuries on Koscielny’s game last year is 140 mins in:
https://youtu.be/60SF-Y__j5w.
A season late *wink wink wink* but I’ll take it!
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Arsenal FCVerified account @Arsenal
9h9 hours ago
🏆 @AaronRamsey
Congratulations, Rambo 👏
Yesterday saw Aaron pick up the trophy for Player of the Season 2017/18
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a good weekend for Arsenal teams
First team
Arsenal 3-1 West Ham
U23’s
West Ham 2-3 Arsenal
U18’s
Arsenal 7-0 Leicester City
U16s
Arsenal 10-2 Leicester City
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Cheers Fins
Good to hear a physio’s take on it. Was pretty clear Kos was hampered by the issue a lot last year. At his brilliant best, sharpness was crucial to a lot of his work. His desire to play in world cup must have been huge and likely played key role in trying to push on all last year.
Think it may be as long as two or three years ago I started thinking one game a week should really be his max, as he seemed to feel strain/ be at high risk of injury if required for two games in quick succession. No blame here for him being used more though. Resources, his quality, and the pressure to get results being what they were
As it goes, I felt I could relate slightly because my achilles bothered me in last year or so of football and ,along with hamstring going twice, was one of reasons I stopped quite early (before thirty)
Sprinting was one of my main strengths and what I enjoyed so a lot of the fun quickly went when couldn’t do it as much as I used to.
(Thankfully, no issues now, as I haven’t got beyond a fast walk, and then for not long, in a couple of years, but I know discomfort in the area would come back quickly if I did. That’s how it went: total rest for a week or whatever and I’d think ‘maybe it’s gone’, then, no matter the warmup, it would be back with running/ sprinting)
A miraculous recovery for Kos, in time, would be most welcome, but anything will be a bonus for me. We get lucky with a strong recovery, maybe we’ll be able to use him wisely in certain games. But no more of him being pressed into duty when he’s not right.
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Tks Mandy
You could be correct that Stan Jr could have plotted the exit plus the other factors we know and have expressed here a number of times. But my point still seems to be unanswered that if Wenger did not wish to retire as we know what was the hurry? Wenger kept us in the Europe’s elite for 20 Years which itself is a massive massive achievement on shoe string budget during the process of building the stadium and giving the face to modern Arsenal club .But the way he has to exit was not in accordance to his unblemished service to the club.
Maybe we will find out if he writes his biography and all these questions are answered.
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I wonder if we will ever know for sure Rosicky, Wenger might one day let us in on things, however I suspect he was paid off with some very strict conditions drawn up by American lawyers including non disclosure agreements. I also think he will resist doing anything that hurts, or puts the club in a bad light .
But would be very interesting to hear his true thoughts on his departure, and a myriad of other issues.
If Wenger won’t disclose things, maybe Ivan will one day write a book, perhaps when he retires a very rich man if reports of the Milan deal are to be believed, might not carry the same weight as the views of Wenger , but this is a man who will have some interesting info .
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Re atmosphere – it wasn’t bad considering how disjointed we looked for most of the game. Not sure what Ian meant by ’70’s roaring’. I was there then and in the mid 70’s the crowds regularly dropped to a third of what was there on Saturday. At best average crowds were two thirds what they are now and moaned just as much.
Re Wenger v Emery – our home form last season would be difficult to improve on (second only to Man City) and we’ve only had one game to judge how well he’s doing to improve away form. And that against a ‘top’ team with a new manager also.
Re full-backs pushing on – we seem to be trying to play them as wing backs without the support of a back three which makes us very vunerable to the fast break.A centre back with a left foot would also help!
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insideright
Recent Arsenal teams don’t seem to have got their collective heads round the back three system in the way that eg George Graham’s teams on occasions could (most gloriously that wonderful night in ’89)
I’d like to see us change our shape to accommodate an extra central defender to cover the wing backs (if that’s what we’re going to have), and I don’t see that it would have that much of an impact on Emery’s playing from the back preferences.
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Alabama
Just saw that NBC clip you mentioned (don’t have skills of Ed and others to post it though!). Fascinating stuff. Relevant to many a debate we’ve had on here.
Everyone should try have a look at it.
None of us watching at home or even in the stadium would perceive that- a frantic and somewhat chaotic discussion between ref and at least one linesman- as what was taking place.
At stake was red or yellow card. Think I’m right in saying officials were onto possibility of it before any challenge was made. The issue whether or not the player made a genuine attempt or could reasonably reach ball (he couldn’t in my opinion) .
Ref was adamant all along he would give yellow. Meanwhile ref was having to deal with noisy players, of course, and the VAR check was automatically taking place.
No issue for me with conduct of ref or linesman, though I think ref was wrong, and also think the VAR check reached wrong conclusion, with enough there to ask ref to look at it on pitch-side monitor.
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The important takeaway from the video however is showing what a bloody hard job it is, with immense time pressure that is not a friend of getting a decision correct.
Whether that decision is right or wrong doesn’t matter- what it shows is that over time many wrong decisions will be made as a result of officials not having optimum- calm, taking as much time as they need- conditions to talk through what each believes they have seen.
Basically it almost begs for VAR.
As it goes, VAR was used, but during the trials here there was a huge reluctance to overturn ref’s original call and almost no use of pitch-side monitor.
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And we haven’t even got around to thinking about whether 4th official/ Mike Dean is pitching in on communications or has an input on any decisions!
Did provide a clue though of how a ref has to be boss in the hierarchy with other officials, although obviously this will vary a lot between different refs and team, and on different days.
All sorts of different scenarios will have played out numerous times : including a linesman’s correct intervention being overruled; or a ref being convinced by vehemence of linesman to change decision on something they’ve both had view of.
Meanwhile those watching would have no idea and their brain will, naturally, stick with idea it’s always ref making a decision on what they’ve seen.
The audio, if I’m honest, makes me think it would be very problematic letting the television audience in on the reality. I can only imagine total resistance from refs to the idea. It’s a messy process and they gain little or nothing but stand to be caught out quite a lot.
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Apologies for ref stuff bombardment but got one more little bit.
Dermott Gallagher’s weekly review interesting this week.
Of note are reasons why he says Chelsea pen right decision (emphasis on getting ball- first?- not enough, if player then clattered)
And then reason why he says Newcastle goal should stand.
‘I don’t think he should have his arm up that high, but Giroud comes into his ground and encroaches on his territory.’
‘I’m not convinced he swings his arm because I think Giroud goes into him. He puts his arm up, there is no doubt about that, but there is a massive difference between that and pushing an elbow into someone’s face.’
You know what incident I’m thinking about on that one!!
New language for me- ‘comes into his ground’, ‘encroaches on his territory’- and sounds very much like such guidelines would easily identify what Alonso did to Bellerin as a foul and a bad one. But we were told from all corners it was fine!
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11483422/ref-watch-willy-bolys-goal-should-have-been-disallowed
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NBC have got some impressive “not available in your location” block on the Clattenburg video. If I were a suspicious person …..
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