Good morning Positive Arsenal fans,
I thought I would feel better in the morning after yesterday evening’s disappointment, and I do. The elixir of rest and time passing. It must be magic.
Part of the improvement in my mood comes from the realisation that our casting away three points that I had assumed that all we had to do was collect at the gate has not done us much material harm in the Premier League. With Chelsea losing we effectively where we were in the table among the big boys in the competition. A chance to make progress spurned. Citeh’s demolition of Stoke an unwelcome reminder of goal scoring at its best. What we must do is ensure that when Mansour and his 40 thieves stumble, as they surely will, we are close enough to take advantage.
Of yesterday’s game ? A fairly even first half with us just shading possession and ahead through the most unlikely of scorers. They all count etc. and Per absolutely hammered the ball with the force and direction that left Gomes static. My feeling at the time was that there was a lot of possession, but much to much sideways passing. The only real creative effort came from Alex Iwobi who took the opposition on with the ball at his feet. Or young dynamo even managed to stamp on Richarlison’s hand – pity it had not been his head but hindsight is a great thing.
Our second half display to the 71st minute carried on in the same vein, keeping ahead in the possession statistic and ensuring that when Watford crossed the half way line with intent then were forced to play in long speculative balls or try to shoot from way out. With Mesut’s arrival we opened the Hornet’s defence up twice and but for some good wok from Gomes would have had at least a decisive 2nd goal.
And then the PENALTY (see previous post for details and discussion).
Now with 20+ minutes left and having created a couple of highly score-able opportunities in the preceding few minutes before the setback my assumption was that we had more than enough time, and certainly the playing resources to put things right. We had not lost at Watford for 30+ years for goodness sake.
But No. Now since 7.24 last night I have seen and read the full range of accusations against individual Arsenal players individually, and I have seen then harangued collectively, Arsene, Bouldy and Vick Akers have been in the arrested and charged for their criminal incompetence.
It seemed to me, reflecting and rerunning that final phase of the game in my head in slow motion we could not decide what to do. In terms of attacking or “chances” the assault I anticipated on the Watford goal never even started. Our game without-the-ball disintegrated. We could not get control of the damn thing for more than one or two passes. When Watford had the ball then it seemed they had time and space to ass and open colleagues to choose from. For us we scuffled, seemed to have no time and picked the wrong pass. We found ourselves pinned back for long periods and when our defence managed to clear the ball it would come straight back with menaces. Under this barrage I make no complaints against the back three (including the surprised Rob Holding) or Cech, or even Hector or Kolasinac. The defence battled manfully as wave after wave battered our defensive wall. Eventually though the weak point was located, the sea rushed through.
We slunk away in defeat. While the devious penalty earned by the young Brazilian was responsible for us not earning at least a point it was the final 20 minutes that defined our evening.
Anyway we move onward to Red Star and thence to Goodison on next Sunday lunchtime. I shall make no predictions though Everton away has been a happy ground for us for most of Wenger’s rein. We could certainly do with one of our strikers scoring away from home, and I don’t care who. I shall keep my eye on the game from the Amex with more interest this afternoon as Koeman’s number may be up.
It is Mesut’s 29th birthday today so I trust he will enjoy his day, a I do all of you this sunny Sunday morning up in Norfolk.
Positively Arsenal 
From the previous but the point is still true,
Jeri Moses
I agree it was a ‘ridiculous penalty’ and ‘Watford had nothing’ , but we have all watched games with Arsenal where the ref is looking to allow the other team back in it.
If we know that, other teams know it Arsenal players must know it also.
The team needs to execute in the big moments , it did not in this game.
The team has to take that chance out of the ref’s hands.
Until the team does that under this management ,the team will not win the Premier League.
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True wwwb – I am afraid even Mr Swarbrick cannot be held to account for the final few minutes
To be fair I think our difficulty was our back six players were desperately trying to hang on for a useful point – the other five had in their minds that they needed to be upfield and available to snatch a winner. We stopped here playing as a single unit and split into two five a side teams involved in different games.
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Nice post by PA. Keeps the hopes alive.
Yestetdays below par display is an eye opener for those who think we can do well without world class talents of Alexis and Ozil.
It will be never easy for us without the 2 experienced campaigners.
We must get them signed for another 2/3 years surely.
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I have not tried out the referee simulator Henry but I shall have a look for it. Recreating the on field dynamics of decision making is very difficult. It hardly helps anyone that within 15 seconds of Swarbrick’s penalty decision last night everyone at home could see the error. Why on Earth that information cannot be conveyed to the referee continues to astound me.
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Yet again, in times of despondency, you have come up with a very good ‘morning after’ Post, Anicoll, that pretty much sums up what happened – well done sir.
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I am unable to get my head around what seemed to be a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde performance, and perhaps it is better for me not to try to do so, as rationalising events that hurt or disappoint usually result in finger pointing and blame apportioning – which inevitably is often inaccurate, and achieves nothing.
Human beings make mistakes — we all do?
What is an indisputable observation is that the performance in the second half could have been a mirror image of the whole game against the ‘Pool in late August when they caned us 4:0 and to that extent we could have lost another two goals against a suddenly resurgent Hornets team.
I do not know how or why we were so poor against Liverpool at that time, so it holds that I do not know what happened in the 2nd half yesterday. Hopefully Mr Wenger and the coaching staff will analyse what went wrong, and lessons learned.
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anicoll
I wasn’t sure what happened after their first, aside from things going badly for us, but your 10.35 sounds a very plausible explanation
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We seem to struggle in away games against a certain breed of team, this is something that needs working on.
As for the ref, I hope that is the last we see of him, especially in away games against teams we are vulnerable to, think his last three away for us, apart from yesterday were Stoke and west Brom, where he allowed a range of dark arts against us, but gave us nothing.
As for players, that at times lack of creativity, if we really are to lose the likes of Alexis, Ozil and Cazorla, then those currently in the squad are going to have to really step up, and Wenger, contract staff, and this mythical DOF are really going to have to step up in coming months. Ramsey and Xhaka are certainly getting there, but would like to see jack at a fitness level whereby he can play more of a part.
Don’t know about red star, but I expect Koeman to use very similar tactics to Watford, let’s hope we get a ref up to the task
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I’ve watched a great number of games ranging from exhilarating to depressing. But cannot remember ever, watching an Arsenal side that actually looked bored. A truly ‘orrid memory.
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Anicoll,
If you still have your mitts on yesterday’s Times, the back page of the sports section shows Giles Smith referring to it – he got the same score as me. lol
Anyhoo, he suggests that anyone interested should go online to The Times Sports ‘Could you be an assistant referee?’ video test [ thetimes.co.uk/sport ] — and have a go. No cheating!
He is convinced we need more technology made available (instantly) for the referees in circumstances like yesterday’s and I of course agree with him.
The fourth official could then let the on-field ref know if there are any problems and take appropriate action.
The video is made with ‘real’ players in differing scenes and altho there is a lot going on – it is nothing like as complex as on the field in a match, where Linos are looking for fouls [trips, pushes, pulls etc] as well as offsides.
I would never make an asst ref as I would be inclined to punch someone on the nose for suggesting I cheated — well you know how fair and impartial all us fans are? lol
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gf60,
I think you have a point — altho for me, it was not so much ‘bored’ as ‘confused’ like a boxer who has suffered an uppercut and cannot collect his wits. [It’s usually temporary] Lol
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Really think that penalties dropped tired heads, as if they have seen it all before, and they have.
Last season, our overly physical dark arts team we conceded a relatively rare 10 penalties in the premier league, second only to relegated hull, see below, note some extremely physical teams,conceding very few pens
https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/AgainstPenalty?comp_id=556
I remember untold arsenal writing a piece which illustrated we regularly finish with a even, or negative pen balance, correlating a change since mike Riley took over. A kind analysis would be that our coaches haven’t adjusted to some current trend in refereeing prevalent in this league, a cynic who witness events in a certain game at OT may say something else.
That’s why I am amused at troy deeney saying our players lack physicality and as he put it, cajones . We all know what happens if our players show too much cajones in and around the penalty area. Our players will know too, and I am sure that’s why they are nervous, hesitant about putting in challenges in the area. And sometimes, it shows.
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I was five minutes late getting to the pub to watch this (having happily jettisoned by BT Sport subscription last term on the grounds of their amateurish commentary set up) and to my relief the players hadn’t actually kicked of but were just passing the ball around ahead of kick off.
Except they HAD kicked off!
In name, at least, it was all pretty benign and leisurely. We all know first games back after the break, odd things are prone to happen and there was plenty of talk of player fatigue. Not so much during the Citeh game v Stoke, but there you go.
If I was a cynic and a suspicious one at that then I’d suggest this referee is the bookmakers’ current ‘go to’ man for when they want to ensure the betting world’s accumulators crash and burn.
Fortunately there is no such thing as corruption in England, so that’s all right.
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Disappointing result and to some degree we got ourselves to blame but I say the ref more so. We might not have played pretty but up until that ghost penalty we did well enough to drag ourselves over the line. Once the ref let the players know we’ll get punished for invading any opposition player’s ‘private space’ in and around the box we were screwed.
Nice read A5!
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anicol @10.31
can’t agree with that at all, when you look at their winning goal, our 2 wing backs were not defending, kolasinac was at least 20 yards away from our area, xhaka just looked on passively, as cleverly ran by him into our area to fire home the loose ball, his midfield partner nowhere to be seen either,
the performance from start to finish was below par, we were the better team in the first half, but it was a case of best of a bad bunch. We took the lead, and instead of this helping us to up our game, we actually sunk back in the second half, lost the midfield, where Eleneny, despite all his running around, was actually giving us little, it was all sideways, backways stuff, and when he did pass forward it was awful. Iwobi had a fine first half, but he got lost as the game went on, and his chance and the better one Ozil had, ultimately cost us the game. These misses gave hope to Watford, “you’ll always get chances against Arsenal” surely ringing in their heads, yes it was a blatant dive, blatant cheating from Richarldson – will be interesting to see if he gets banned tomorrow, I doubt it very much, we have seen several similar this season and are still waiting for the new dive panel to take action, the stupid clause they have to the panel’s decision that all 3 members must decide its a dive, really takes the claws away from this FA pussycat of a panel.
As others have said, unless these Arsenal players are stupid, they know what the refs are up to, they know dodgy penalties are given against us, they know we don’t get penalties, so why do they buckle when it happens, it should be of no surprise.
Shotta had an article earlier in the week about the importance of beating the bottom 12-14 sides, and here we are with 2 losses to such sides already.
And I disagree that with CFC losing our defeat has not impacted us, of course it has, we are now 9pts off top, by the way we are only 10 off bottom. Once again we went into a game against a lesser team, knowing that 3 of our big rivals had dropped pts, CFC, LFC and MU, yet we played so god damn flat, never looked like a team that was determined to ram home an advantage, not even after we took the lead, if anything we shrunk back into shells. Sorry but this has happened far too often in the last couple of years, for us to keep excusing them for it.
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The performance, and selection against Everton will be an interesting measure on the reality of the club at the moment. If this, possibly interlull and ref induced shambles, is repeated, I for one will be worried, let’s see what they do.
Wenger needs a serious response , as was evident after Liverpool, again.
Yesterday was interesting for those who doubt ramseys abilities for this team.
Sadly, the team, and perhaps, maybe especially Ozil are seriously missing my main man, out for a year now. I know it won’t be easy, but Wenger is going to have to think about some sort of replacement, that is if he wants Wengerball back.
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ArsenalAndrew
October 15, 2017 at 11:12 am
I was five minutes late getting to the pub to watch this (having happily jettisoned by BT Sport subscription last term on the grounds of their amateurish commentary set up) and to my relief the players hadn’t actually kicked of but were just passing the ball around ahead of kick off.
Except they HAD kicked off!
spot on Andrew, it was all “after you” sort of stuff, elneny sideways, backways, bellerin turned back almost every time he got the ball, or at best turned inside and played it to a midfielder who would play it sideways or backways, welbeck and lacazette failed to hold the ball if there was the slightest of challenges, Iwobi was the only one up to speed, but everytime he injected pace and movement into an attack, it broke down cos he was the only one doing anything at speed. The rest were sleepwalking through it.
Twice this season our u18 manager Kwame Ampadu has given after match interviews where he basically said his team/squad had to learn and realize that talent alone is not enough if you want make it to the first team at Arsenal, he and the young lads must be very confused when they see what the first team players put in yesterday. Kwame needs to go into the first team dressing room at Colney tomorrow and have a word with them.
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Mandy Dodd
I mentioned this before also, players like never before have been emboldened to speak in disparaging terms about Arsenal, above all teams. Players are increasingly more comfortable in essentially speaking in the most critical terms of Mr Wenger, I am not talking ex-players but current players on opposing teams.
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Mandy we have to see what team selection is v Red Star first, with Koscielny, Mustafi and maybe Chambers all out, can we dare to play Per on Thursday with him going to be needed on Sunday, can we keep playing Monreal, surely he needs a game off, Kolasinac and Bellerin too, I would think, if we are ever going to see him used again, that Debuchy has to come into the side on Thursday.
then we have Ramsey and Alexis, and even Ozil, do we use any of them on Thursday, with Everton game in mind, Welbeck out again cuts the options in attack.
Does Xhaka need taking out of the firing line in the EL, we have Jack and Coquelin available, AMN, and Nelson will likely come into the squad, Theo and Olly are there too, but of those we will start v Everton, how many can we afford to use v Red Star, and can we risk putting out a miss mash of a team v Red Star and risk the damage another away defeat would do to our squads apparent brittle confidence.
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wwwb on opponents talking about our players and team etc, this is now the 3rd time Troy Deeney has belittled our players after we lost to watford, the fa cup defeat two years ago, last years home defeat in the league and yesterday, he has also belittled them on at least one other occasion when on a football show, he joins a list of current players to do so, who are only echoing what ex players, pundits, journos and bloggers have said, and what have our lot done to shut them up, what have they done to throw it back in their faces, not a damn thing. No they meekly take it.
We have to admire Ramsey and Giroud so much for how they have responded to all the critics, and Jack for coming back over and over after injury, but sadly these are the exceptions, far too many of the rest of them, just stroll on as if nothing has happened, or it doesn’t matter, God damn have they no fucking pride.
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Richarlison
Will not be punished for diving ,take it from me.
If I am wrong I will appologise.
I am not convinced VAR will help Arsenal under this management ,as the narrative is set in concrete.
The people administering the VAR will be members of the same group,they will come to the same conclusions with no recriminations.
Why? It will not have adverse affect on the other teams, so as we have seen in America so clearly , if it does not affect you directly you do not care.
The desire to remove Mr Wenger from the media is too strong and has too many people who have double downed and made their name of the campagin.
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Sounds like quite a quandary on team selection. Maybe we should have kept Gabriel!
Also, seem very short at RB, as you say, he doesn’t seem to want to play debuchy, so guess maitland miles may be bought in.
We reportedly lost 24 out with 2 in last summer, not going to check how accurate this is, but if we really are possibly losing major players in January, really hope there are replacements lined up, or we could seriously struggle.
Agree on it being open season on Arsenal, deeney is a clogging journeyman who will never achieve anything close to what some of our players have. Such a player can only really exist in a pgmol protected bubble these days. His words are disrespectful, not sure it is wengers quiet considered thing, but I hope someone pins them up on the wall of the dressing room next time we play them, and we ram his words down his throat
Why do arsenal get it so much these days? A media agenda, a desire to protect rival teams, the fact we sometimes make it so easy for those with an agenda against us, Stan and Wenger are easy victims at the moment, but still think there are attempted hostile takeovers around this club by people with influence on the media. Even the once loyal Martin Keown is starting to sound like Stewart Robson. Think we all know what they want.
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Wwwb, agree, they will do nothing against Richardson, if they do, it sets a precedent, and they will have to ban the annointed dele Ali, and half his Spurs and England team mates on a weekly basis , in a World Cup season, not going to happen.
As we know, Owen, Shearer, Gerrard, Rooney, England players get massive protection, unless they play for arsenal that is.
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wwwb that is a point I have made on here several times, VAR may improve the game overall, but I don’t see it doing AFC any good, as the man in charge of the VAR will be just another PGMOL guy who if not manning the VAR will be one of those giving the dodgy decisions against us from the middle of the field.
We already see the media response when video replays show us to have been wronged, there is no outrage, there is no calls of Arsenal hard done by, in fact its the opposite, so why would anyone expect that things will change for AFC when VAR is brought in.
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Brilliant analysis eddy – after 15 minutes of being solidly attacked by wave after wave of Watford attacks, and with no respite, our defenders were pulled out of position and the home side were able to take advantage
Fucking disgraceful of our wing backs – they should be ashamed of themselves.
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Rich and Mandy – the penalties given for us may be a refereeing issue. It is also, in my opinion, an issue of having players willing and able to take on defenders in the box or on the edge of the box with the ball at their feet. The reason that Brazilian bastard won his penalty was that he ran at Hector with the ball, and our man HAD to put in a challenge. Think about yesterday’s game – how often was Danny or Laca one on one at speed running into the box with the ball and forcing a defender to put his foot in?
Alex Iwobi is learning to do it but he is still a little naive, Jack could do it if he gets on, RvP was good at it, and Pires and Thierry masters of drawing the clumsy challenge.
We try to pass round defenders no matter how tight the space, we play triangles, we rarely take a defender on face to face.
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Mandy the whole dive panel thing is a farce, the make up of the panel, the rules to it, and the rule that if a player is booked by the ref for diving he can get no further punishment, while a guy for the same offence that the ref did not spot will get a 3 game ban, its crazy, surely any dive deemed a dive should mean that 3 game ban. Or was that clause only inserted so refs could let guys like Deli Alli off the hook by booking them.
If FA really want to stamp out diving first thing is stop with the nonsense needing all 3 of the panel to have to deem it a dive for the player to be banned. Pts need deducting from teams for a dive, plain and simple, that is the only way, real deterrent, managers will soon stop their players cheating if pts will be deducted.
by the way one of the guys on the panel is Trevor Sinclair, who I have seen time and again defend divers, especially English divers, he comes out with stuff like “only he knows if he dived”, and “you would have to know what is going through his head at that moment before you can say he dived”, so how in God’s name could anyone expect him to declare any dive he reviews as a dive unless the player in question tells him he dived.
Dive Panel, VAR, its all the same, watered down stuff to make out the FA are trying to stop cheating etc.
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The fine line between diving and asserting your rights as an attacking player in an difficult world as eloquently outlined by our former captain eight years ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/sep/26/robin-van-persie-penalty-diving
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as usual anicol you misrepresent what someone says when its something you don’t like, so despite what you call 15 minutes of wave after wave of attacks, we have two wingbacks not defending, do you hear yourself, its laughable,
Xhaka stood motionless outside the area as their midfielder ran in to score, no sign of Elneny at all, and this after
“15 minutes of being solidly attacked by wave after wave of Watford attacks,”
doesn’t that make it worse, deep into injury time and our players stopped defending, what did they expect, that this “wave after wave of Watford attacks” had stopped 2 minutes early,
on penalties not being given to us, again laughable to try and say we don’t get penalties cos our players don’t run at opponents in the area, so far this season Welbeck has had a couple not given when doing exactly that, Bellerin and Iwobi too, and if we expand it to last season how many times did Alexis get taken down when running at opponents with no award, ox, theo, etc, and to say that is the reason is to suggest that those are the only type of penalty being awarded against us and not for us, when its all sorts on both counts.
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Other than moaning at the named players what point are you making eddy – What insight are you giving us ?
Yes eddy – we agree – players make errors – players get tired – players do not always run back when they should back and stand where we would like them to stand – so try the boot on the other foot …
Clearly Watford made a major error trying to marl Per Mertsacker with a short arse like Cleverely
Would you therefore say the goal the BFG scored was a well taken header from a player using his years of experience to spot a chance, or just a defensive cock up that should never have happened ?
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the per goal is a bit of both, we don’t know if per would have still managed to power in the header if a bigger lad had been marking him, there would still have been a fair chance of it, watford putting cleverly on him made it easier that is for sure.
Stat wise every goal has an average of six mistakes in it.
what does ignoring our players not doing all they could do either, what insight will come off that either, maybe that is what they do, and is the reason why it happens again and again
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wwwb,
Our missed chances didn’t decide the game, the ref did by rewarding cheating. He in effect handed Watford the momentum and energized the Watford support to really lift their players while deflating our players and spoiling our game plan.
But in the world we live in, blaming the victim is much easier than actually trying to fix the problem. Which is why you have to give msm credit; they have successfully turned many against our biggest asset while hiding and shielding our true enemy as they continue to destroy us.
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jeri our missed chances gave the ref the opportunity to bring watford back into the game, even wenger said as much after the game,
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There are times in a game when you feel the momentum swinging and such was yesterday. We didn’t start the second half as we had finished the first and although we still created the odd chance things were starting to change.
Xhaka and Mo were starting to lose the midfield, this was due partly to Watford missing it out or playing straight down the sides and partley because of Iwobi and Sead not tracking back. Hector was left two v one several times before the pen.
When the time was approaching 60 mins I felt sure Arsene was going to make a tactical change with Iwobi coming off for Jack to create further impoduce and up the workrate. Oviously his decisions were hampered by injuries firstly to Welbs (who works hard up and down and accross the pitch) and then Kos in the final few minutes.
Although Alex was still creating going forward he has doing absolutley nothing when watford had the ball and was becoming a liabillity.
The game was opening up and almost resembled a school playground next goals wins scenario and when Mezut missed and the ref joined in that was it.
If you only watch the final 20 minutes it looked like we were lucky to get away with just the one goal defecit and if you freeze frame their goal look at the amount of ARSENAL players standing watching , hands on hips frozen to the spot.
In hindsight we needed Le Coq or Jack to take back the game but when players appear lazy there is no wonder the wobs are baying for blood,
Yes the ref got it wrong , yes we were unlucky with injuries, yes had we been more clinical we would have won but there are still questions to be asked about that second half performance.
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Jeri Moses
The missed chances were fundamental in the result of this game.
As I said before , we all know that Ref’s will give dubious decision more against us than for us.
Once Arsenal has been the beneficiary of a decision anywhere near dubious, it is dissected and is usuallly the talking point of the weekend, therein making every decision given to Arsenal in the following games the subject of intense scrutiny.
Ref’s feel this pressure, if any subsequent plainly bad or dubious decisons against Arsenal is justified by Arsenal being the beneficiary of a generous decision X Games ago.
The team must be aware of this, the team has to own it because it is not going to change, because it has no detrimental effect on the other teams.
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Was it my imagination or did Alex Iwobi look aghast to find he was staying on AoB when Jack say down? He was running on empty by that stage it seemed to me and expected to be withdrawn
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I think you are right, Anicol, but sis you realise that there was a change of heart when Kozzer whatnot packed up, and Holding had to come on instead of Jack.
“Sit down, Jack” roared AW, “we need a holding defender – like – umm, Holding to give Kos a break. And I do not mean that sort of break”
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sis = did —- bloody keyboard is too small after a drinky-poo. lol
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Paranoia seems to be rife in the blog world today. You watch yourself, Anicoll, @12:58!! lol
Actually, I think you ask very apposite questions — it’s just that perhaps Plato was right – we are just dreaming life in our consciousness, and our physical existence does not actually exist, and we only realise that when we kick the bucket. Eddie does not exist in reality [but don’t tell him!! ] lol
None-the-less I am off for a Chinese — and I am dribbling – but I don’t care – I’m only dreaming!!
[Do you know — it seems that you pinching my dictionary, seems to prove my loquaciousness does not need it. Yippeee. lol
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We are in the cave Henry, chained, seeing the flicker of shadows about us, and some of us know it
and on that cheerful note I shall go for a sandwich and watch Everton
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Me too!! lol
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When Shotts outlines the data on pelanties in particular he is lying?
If you were paying attention you’d have noted that the official was tilting in the first half nevermind the second.
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WWB
We recall that not even the invincibles could win a game of football when the official is crooked.
I hope that none here will waste their time even attempting to claim that the official in 50th match was simply having a ricket. And that therefore such things can’t happen in this league.
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Shotts will tell you data reveals the truth Fins – or I think that is what he thinks.
I’d tell you that interpreting data may tell you the truth, or a number of truths – I would however warn that one has to be comprehensive in selecting the data you choose too interpret, in order that the result of your enquiry is not skewed by the elements on which it is founded.
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It’s a good thing the beam I’m standing upon was designed using mean calculations that weren’t so esoteric in their interpretation
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Like the man here says:
http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/64922
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Like this man says too;
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“The proof is in the pudding,
and the pudding in this case is a football…”
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…and the Football tells us that the England football team loses to Iceland, whilst the blaggers tell us the opposite (Rooney up there with Messi etc)
that English football under Riley has progressed from being a league that the German coaches and FA copied in order to produce players like Muller and Ozil to being one that relies on rolling out Troy Deeney into the studio (not the pitch) in a pathetic attempt to cover up some fairly obvious tilting.
(Don’t worry I’ve put money on England winning the WC next summer)
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Not that I want to interfere, but doesn’t ‘the proof of the pudding’ mean you can only tell the quality of something after you have personally used it, tried it or experienced it.
I am three sheets to the wind — so, nothing new there — but I do not understand what you mean Fins? lol
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