Arsenal supporters from a different era …
The salient points from yesterday’s game, courtesy of Northbank1969:
“I’m still looking on the bright side. We are still only two points from 4th place, the boys can turn this season around. They played some excellent football yesterday and no single player can be blamed for the result. It was just one of those days.
We’ll still finish above United.”
There’s famous old film footage in the Arsenal Museum of what appears to be a pre-war, pre-match game with what is definitely a pre-Payton Supporters’ Club member parading a placard around a packed ground with the words: ”May the best team win”.
Yesterday, the best team did not win.
But it was hardly the fault of Man u or, surprisingly, the ref. Of course, we can point to McNair’s ankle-breaker of a tackle on a wet pitch that went unspotted by the ref – and most others in the stadium, in real time. And Fellaini’s similarly unspotted, unpunished agricultural shove on Gibbs which led to the most unfortunate of deflected goals.
As is the case in every game I’ve watched this season, outcomes would have been so very different had video technology been in use. But it wasn’t in use yesterday so Jack’s assailant got off Scot-free and the simple pre-goal shove that took out two of our defence was legitimised by the honourable willingness of Ches to stagger to his feet rather than stay down injured, an act which in turn helped the ref to turn a blind eye to Fellaini’s rustic tactics moments before.
Our failure to score, having dominated Man u to the point of opening up a multitude of chances was the reason for the defeat. Not United. Not the referee. And certainly not the Arsenal Manager and his supposedly empty tactics book, his failure to by a DM or play with the handbrake on. Or off – or whichever charge is en vogue this particular week. It was hardly tactics that led to a slew of chances landing in De Gea’s hands or over his cross bar.
Like Stew, from yesterday’s post, United are the team against whom I most hate to lose.
Chelsea are a close second, admittedly, but they have a touch too much of the Johnny-come-latelies about them. United are – or certainly, under Red Nose, were – the ultimate visitors from the dark side. But, post-Ferguson, they look a very different prospect and its hard to see them returning to their dominant position in English football anytime soon. Yesterday they were very much there for the taking and once their post-match celebrations have ebbed away, their injury-hit squad’s inadequacies and it’s gaping vulnerability, will be very much apparent to all future opponents. The state of their defence, the fading of van Persie, the going down of the Young. The patchy contributions of their new mega-waged, mega-signings. All must be of immense concern to united followers who, deep down, will recognise the lucky win for what it was.
Today, of course, it’s all about The Arsenal, and the media and fair weather fans are again in inglorious cahoots echoing hideous harmonies rising and falling on our own perceived vulnerabilities. As is now almost traditional for this time of year, they merrily seize on any scrap of ‘evidence’ to justify and re-fuel the current orgy of criticism and abuse against the same club, manager and players they simultaneously still claim to ‘support’.
After yesterday’s result they must be feeling all their Christmases have come at once.
Indeed, so many of the ‘Arsenal ’til I Die‘ mob had left the stadium early to start up their celebration of failure in the bars around Holloway Road and beyond, that shockingly substantial numbers failed to see the extra eight minutes of added time, or witness the worldie from Giroud. They were certainly not present to give their all to support the team that was clearly giving it’s all. But a team that had failed to finish and ultimately was undone by a deflection and a hit-and-run winner as it worked over-anxiously throughout the match for a breakthrough, clearly deserved much more than it got, both from the gods of chance and at the hands of their own fans. Or some of them, at least.
As Northbank rightly says, we played some excellent football yesterday and though the result didn’t go our way, the end of the world is most certainly not upon us, whatever the Goners might have you believe.
The team will work to bring supporters back on side, the injured will continue to return, the squad will be strengthened by continued assimilation of the newbies and, doubtless, one or two January signings will catch the eye. The team will calm down, and will aim, we are told, to become more ‘efficient’ in defence and attack.
As ever, my only real concern is the mental state of some of our supporters but there is little to be done about that.
Had they stayed to the end and given as much as they demanded of their own team, I might have more time for them. I do understand people being upset and very much include myself in that – it was United, after all, and a mis-firing one at that. But before fans get started on complaining about players/manager/tactics going missing, they need to look at themselves and ask why they allowed themselves an early ‘in’ at the bar, to allow the 12th man to disappear with the best part of 15 minutes still to play? Why did they make themselves at least partly culpable? It looks terrible when you see it happening at other clubs; with our record of turning games around in the last few minutes it’s pretty much unforgiveable to bale out before full time is up against any opponent. Let alone Manchester United.
The squad will doubtless be devastated by the result – that much was evident at the final whistle.
But they’ll encouraged, too, by most of the performance and it will be that which is carried forward to the next game.
Positively Arsenal 
All I can say is thank goodness for the likes of Andrew. What a wonderful post at a time of disappointment.
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It will come good. It will ! The sooner the better, But the fragility of confidence is a big factor. Only wins can fix that.
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Well done Andrew – a man with his head above the parapet
And I am glad you mentioned the early exit
Being an armchair fan I had the dubious benefit of watching the stadium empty well before the final whistle, with large gaps lower tier appearing before Rooney’s second goal went in and when, by any measure, we were well in with a chance of stealing the game.
It was an early evening game, on a Saturday ffs, what is the early exit all about ?
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so many who claim to be Arsenal supporters are not supporters at all, at best they can be called fans, but supporters actually support, especially when most needed. Those that left early yesterday are likely to be the sort that will moan on the web the most.
I seen on several Arsenal sites poster after poster say they had either predicted we would lose or they knew we would lose, yet they are in full on rant at everything Arsenal.
I am glad to have come across Positively Arsenal, as its a haven of sanity. A place where it seems sensible debate can be had. I was a regular poster on Arsenal Times for almost 9 years, but myself and a couple of other of the more reasonable posters took the decision earlier this week to leave that site, for some of us who left it was purely down to the negative nonsense, the juvenile level of debate, and the total lack of respect these so called supporters show towards the club they claim to love. Arsenal Times was once the best Arsenal site out there, but one by one all the more positive posters have left or have big time restricted their contribution and now the place stinks of negativity, but then negativity gets a site hits.
Arsenal played some of our best football of the season yesterday, and what cost us is what has cost us all season, not poor defense, not missing a defensive midfielder, but lack of clinical finishing, We should have been 4 up by the time utd got their lucky lead goal.
This Arsenal team is so very close to being a real quality team/squad. It is not the time to listen to the naysayers
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Well said Andrew and eduardo. I too left another site too permeated with negativity to stand any longer. Have to admit I left early, in the sense that I switched off my stream after Rooney’s goal. I was just so gutted after we had outplayed them for most of the match that I couldn’t watch any more. But I certainly don’t feel like having a go at any individual, player or manager. We need to be more “efficient” as AW puts it, the usual word is clinical, with our chances. Too many rushed shots straight at the keeper instead of placed to one side. As PG says, it’s a confidence issue and that will return with a few wins – and they will come, I can feel it.
Next game Wednesday – maybe we can begin there.
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Here, all is not lost, we are not the Omega Man of blogs after all http://www.arsenal.vitalfootball.co.uk/matchrep.asp?a=547974
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Eduardo – you may be interested to know that positivity also gets sites ‘hits’.
This blog site was set up to bring together a very, very decent pool of commentators who’s contributions elsewhere might otherwise be swamped by the periodic rising tide of negativity.
Aside from the real enjoyment of chatting with you lot, another reason we keep the site going is down to the huge numbers reading it, numbers which never fail to amaze (me, at least).
Numbers that read whilst never, or only occasionally commenting, which confirm that whilst there are many blogs taking an adversarial position in respect of the club, there is still enormous interest in the reasoned, patient and informed views of those who continue to support with a positive outlook and who look beyond every setback (or rumours of setbacks) as an opportunity to denigrate our fine old institution (the club, not George).
As we’ve always said, the great value of the site lies in the comments section (though we are fortunate to get regular wonderful lead posts from the likes of Steww, Anicol, George and others).
My feeling is that we are constantly picking up new visitors and writers such as yourself from the ranks of those turned off by the relentless attacks in print elsewhere, and long may that continue.
Or at least until a bit of balance returns to the AFC community.
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all I’m pointing out is that many bloggers copped on to the fact that negativity gets more hits and it is much easier to generate negativity. Le Grove and ANR are two of the biggest exponents of this. Thankfully there are still sites like PA who get their hits without going down the route of negativity
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I understand the point you are making Eduardo and agree; it is much easier – and lazier – to use negativity to attract attention, sadly.
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I come on here because it seems to me that it is a place where posters still know how to enjoy football and enjoy following Arsenal, which as with any club involves ups as well as downs. A bit of perspective as well as the occasional flash of humour.
Elsewhere there is a relentless flagellation of the club, players, manager, coaches, board and everything to do with the club.
long may our pennant flutter.
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Wen we were 2 goals down…i had the feeling we could still win it,but wen per refused to get back to his position even after the 2nd goal and they almost got a 3rd i knew it was over.i dont like to criticize the manager but he left his team in a position where he couldnt take Per off or bench him after wat happened yesterday…i could see some one blaming the finishing instead of the defence,if u dont score u dont win games…if u dont concede u dont loose.when united broke for the 2nd goal…there was only monreal left at the back…we r the only team that plays like that,just like it happened against swansea when they scored their equaliser,just one defender at the back.the defending was poor,and the manager stood to watch all his defenders move up and expose the goalkeeper.koscielny had this injury before preseason started.we all knew it was going to get worse at some point cos Vermaelen had exactly the same injury with both his achilles,he needed surgery to fix it.yet wenger tot it best for Koscielny to rest,it didnt work for Vermaelen,a good thing we had Koscielny to play in his stead…who do we have in Koscielny’s stead,Monreal.wat gutted me bout the game yesterday was the fact that United had 2 players from the reserves play against us and won…Mcnair and Blackett…it is annoying wen u consider Miquel was sold this season knowin there was no other CB cover,and again against swansea u could see Bartley play his heart out against us,jenkinson is doing well at Westham and presently they sit above us in the league,its sad really wen a team has defensive crisis and u cant look to ur reserve team for cover.Monreal is trying his best and he wasnt culpable for any of the goals yesterday for a change but wen u ask a 5’8 player to mark a 6’2 striker in an arieal duel he is always going to be second best.the back 4 has not changed in over a month and what happens wen Gibbs gets injured cos we know its gettin close to that time he gets injured.wat would we do…we have some of the best attacking talents in the league but we currently have the worst defensive unit….it is not supposed to be so.
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And talking of fluttering take a look at the Ticket Exchange for Wednesday might
Over the past month there has been an occasional ticket come up each day, similar to any Euro tie
Since last night’s defeat the season ticket holders who left early it seems ain’t coming back
Great to see the fans getting right behind the club when we need it (banned smiley)
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better off without fans who don’t want to be there and actually support the club. The amount of self entitlement among Arsenal fans is staggering, but if you dare call them glory hunters they will have a fit.
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Props to Andrew for having the strength and fortitude to do a post. I don’t know how he does it, I can’t. These defeats drain me emotionally , leaving me numb, especially when we play as well as we did.
The title of the blog “May The Best Team Win – Or At Least Have More Shots On Target Than Scored” nails the proverbial nail on the head. Many of us have already made the point here and on twitter that the underlying cause of our mediocre points standing is not our defending, nor the absence of the mythical D**M, but our anemic shot conversion to goals. I have no time to look up the official stats but a reasonable estimate from yesterday’s game is 1 goal out of 20 shots or, 5 f**cking percent. That is simply not good enough. I recently saw a stat at the Arsenal Column that in the League we are 6th in goals but 2nd and 3rd respectively in Shots per Game and Shots on Target. No matter the genius of Arsene Wenger is setting up the team, we are just one unpunished Fellaini foul away from a totally undeserved goal from a team sitting deep and ready to pounce on a mistake to score. We are now totally familiar with the drill; thereafter the team with the undeserved lead then commits more bodies to defending and we have to fling more men forward for the equalizer with the attendant risks of conceding more.
Apparently there is a strong current among the “experts” in the media and among our own supporters who would prefer Arsenal revert to more conservative tactics; sit deep, surrender possession, take less shots and grind teams down over 90 minutes and nick a win by one or two goals. Seems like the tactics we employed much of last year and gave us a grand position of 4th. In contrast the more successful teams last year, City and Liverpool went on the front foot, scoring goals, according to the following stats (GF/GA/League position):
City: 102/37/1st
Liverpool: 101/50/2nd
Chelsea: 71/27/3rd
Arsenal: 68/41/4th
In an era where the rules increasingly favor attackers vs defenders, is it really arguable that it is necessary to suffer the pain of transition to attacking football rather than continuing the conservative approach we adopted last year?
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Thank fuck for this place, fantastic stuff from Andrew.
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Doomer receives abuse from other Arsenal supporters for yelling shit about Wenger.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2277336-arsenal-fan-calls-wenger-deluded-old-fool-leaves-ground-in-tears-after-abuse
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Them this twat has the temerity to lame Wenger for splitting the fans.
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Here’s my strategy after a defeat like yesterday’s. Avoid Twatter, go to dinner with some friends and hope Andrew of another sensible, intelligent positivista writes something to raise the spirits of the rest of us…..
Wenger’s comments about our naive defending suggests our players a re slow to learn. They gifted that game to Manure……
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Right Brendan and his boys have done their bit to cheer me up
Now for Brucey and the neighbours
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Anicoll5@3:41pm-Their misfortunes hardly cheer me up except to prove that no club can be taken for granted in the PL.
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dortmund drew 2-2 away to newly promoted paderborn. Reus out for rest of the year with ankle ligament injury. Dortmund now in relegation zone, 7 defeats from 12.
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Thanks for the post and many fine comments, on the previous article too.
I noticed that there were probably more people left behind applauding the team then usually after the final whistle, even though some people had left early. Maybe I was just lucky to be sat in a fun area. Certainly more fun watching a game of football where I was sat then with the uber-fans/non-celebrity twats sat behind the dug-out, in my experience
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Eduardo@4:15pm – You are a cruel man breaking the heart of the Kloppie groupies who want him to replace Wenger.
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The Groaners had their knives out last season, the most successful season in the league since 08 and the most successful season overall since 05.
What can the reasonable mind make of this observation?
That some have staked their very support upon the concept of “regime change”, those that have been trolled, those that have not been making money from trolling. It’s why they have celebrated draws like defeats, ignored the 5pur2 games, etc. for a while now. As Northbank observed, as some of us had concluded previously, it has nothing to do with what happens on the pitch – plenty of evidence for that understanding
I respect those football fans who had he footballs to set up FC Utd.
I don’t respect those people who are seeking to undermine AFC with the aid of an extreme right wing media that everyone understands seek to propagate a particular political philosophy (that would be debt peonage! I.e.:Spending double the amount on players….signing players from third party agents, giving agents the cuts they demand – the homely world of obi Mikel and Luiz mafia transfers etc. etc. etc. jumpers for goalposts it ain’t.
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who will they want if not klopp, maybe Rodgers after all he is a tactical master, we could of course go for Coyle, he was a favorite of so many, maybe Moyes he used to head the list, what about that ex chelsea and tottnum manager, you know the one who used to hunker down to watch the game, now that was the leadership we needed, maybe the guy at tottnum now, as we know they are a club with ambition, What I don’t understand is why Tim Payton has not been made manager long ago, he is the uber “I could do better job than Wenger” type of moaner.
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I think Herr Klopp may well prove to be a fine Arsenal manager in time and his current run of form shouldn’t negate his previous successes. I expect he will be in the frame when the time comes. But as the players are so obviously still playing for Arsene then now is not the time.
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Fins@4:46pm – “Regime change”, “debt peonage”. Interesting how our current political economy has echoes in our club. Reading online lots of our fans have the consumerist entitlement that they pay so much to attend games they are entitled to a win. After all they are conditioned to believe in immediate gratification by running up their credit card for the privilege of attending a game at the Emirates. No doubt their card issuer is enjoying the interest income as they enslave themselves in debt. While our club and the PL are guilty of complying with the laws of capitalism to make as much money from the punters but unfortunately there is no way they can guarantee a win.
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the reality is that most who use the line about how costly a season ticket is at Arsenal, are not season ticket holders. I seen when pointed out that cat C game tickets are as cheap as £26, some Gooners say who wants to go to Arsenal v Burnley. We have football snobs of the worst kind.
On ticket prices, I seen recently that at least 13 FAPL clubs charge our away fans more than AFC charge their clubs fans. And in most cases way more, and in the case of a couple of those games, LFC for one, restricted views. But our fans decide to go along with the media agenda that expensive tickets is purely an Arsenal issue. Its sad to see so many of our fans so brain dead that they can not see past the media bullshite. I suppose its the culture of the day.
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the guy who broke Diaby’s ankle looking for sympathy for his actions
http://rokerreport.sbnation.com/2014/11/23/7270597/assassin-responds-to-wenger-comments
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How lucky can Spurs be? Hull self-inflicted sending off by the foolish Gaston Ramirez and for the 2nd game Spurs win vs 10 men. Now they are level on points with us.
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I liked this comment on twitter by a fellow gooner
Gotta love all the ‘what has happened to my club’ comments. The club is in it’s best shape ever. Our team is flawed not the club.
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Ramirez an idiot – cost his side the game – I hope Bruce knocks his block off
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Eduardo: To be honest He, Dan Smith, has a point. Essien and Robinson went further to smash Diaby’s ankle. I understand why Wenger sees him as the assassin but the lad was sent out by his manager to make a name for himself. In English football it means giving Arsenal players a kicking. He was just a tool.
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@G69@2:14pm – No surprise these twats go to TalK Sports to moan when they get a taste of their own medicine. They thrive on fickle fans over-reacting to a win or loss. Thats how they gain listenership. The MBA types call it the ‘business model.”
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Dortmund fans put some Arsenal fans to shame
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3JJ2BDIcAA6T1I.jpg:large
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Amici lol, sounds like I should have waited to pick up that Dorund ticket from the exchange–I might have had even a better seat for better price!
I’ll enjoy the night anyway–I love European nights though I don’t expect the same complete joy as the Galatasaray win, plus fireworks, plus teen gooners chanting all match. That was really splendid. The fun continues when there is interesting and entertaining chat to be had on blogs or in pubs.
After reading the vital arsenal linked article and another piece linked there by little Dutch, Tim STillman I think, on the Grantland site, I am reinforced in the view that we will still be likely to get to the CL places by the end of the season, as we usually do. So we aren ‘t as bad as some might suggest now just as we weren’t as good last year as some claimed at that time when leading the league either. But the stats, while encouraging in some respects, also don’t capture the sense that I have that we haven’t been playing very well quite apart from the results. On that front, yesterday’s performance is encouraging. Hopefully we’ll put together a performance and better result midweek. It will certainly make it more fun if we do.
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Limey @ 7:13pm – If we can maintain and exceed the standard at which we played United we should make the top-4 with relative ease. For the 1st time in a long time we seemed in control of the game at both sides of the pitch until the goal-scoring incident. It is the consistency that I am most worried about, if you ask me.
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it seems the guys on shewore are discussing hiring a plane to fly over the emirates with a wenger out banner. What idiots. Several other agitator groups are trying to band together to get enough support to have a Wenger out demo at the Emirates too. Its funny that these same people talk about Wenger dragging Arsenal through the gutter. Attention seeking twats, the lot of them.
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Why do the WOB expect and demand extra-ordinary performances from the team? Yes, the players and the manager with extra-ordinary talent are paid extra-ordinary amounts of money and yes, ticket-prices are extra-ordinarily costly when on ordinary wages. But the team is faced with extra-ordinary challenges, extra-ordinary demands, extra-ordinary conditions, both physical and mental, not to mention the fact that a opposing team is trying extra-ordinarily hard to win. Surely it follows that the support should be extra-ordinary? What about the refereeing standard, should it not also be extra-ordinary?
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extra-ordinary post
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Klopp: “The games we’re losing: we run 12km more than opposition & have 20 more shots, but we lose 1-0.”
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Shotta, that is a big worry, to be sure. I think our schedule gas been pretty tough but what is disappointing are the really winnable games we seem to have given away, whether it is poor finishing or poor defending that has done us in. Maybe Giroud, Walcott and even Podolski could help us out on the conversion rate. Similarly Debuchy’s return in December will help at the back.
Autocorrect made a hash of my last post–Anicoll, seems I should have held off on the Dortmund ticket an extra couple days…
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reports suggesting that both Wilshere and Szczesny have sprains, JW (ankle), WS (Hip) and both are out of dortmund game but neither will be long term
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I too think Dan Smith has a point. An over-enthusiastic tackle rather than a malicious one. And Diaby does seem to injure easily – he had had problems before he came and an earlier manager of his said that he thought he would continue to be high risk, so we can’t say we weren’t forewarned.
Anyway, I don’t think everything can fairly be laid at Smith’s door. But it seems that everything many Arsenal fans wished for him has happened – I think he uses the word “karma” himself.
Let’s move on – and hope that Abou still manages to come back and earn that contract renewal.
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Fuck – now we’re down to our 3rd and 4th choice goalkeepers. It never rains but it pours.
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Limestone – agree, there have been some very winnable games that we’ve either allowed to slip away or had taken from us, one way or another.
Without risking feeling sorry for ourselves I think it’s fair to say we’ve had a rough ride this season so far. Simply not losing Kos – and Kos’s crucial partnership with Per – would very likely have changed the complexion and outcome of several (probably most) games. The number of ‘illegal’ goals we’ve conceded, indeed, the role of referees throughout this long dark autumn have rarely been too favourable to our cause.
There is an upside to all this which is that often inappropriately used saying – what doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger.
We are having lessons forced upon us that we can only learn from. Yes, at times we’ve suffered at the hands of outrageous fortune but we’ve also been the architects of our own shortcomings at different times and we are, unsurprisingly paying a hefty price for all that.
Saturday was bitter-sweet.
Terrible defeat but great domination. Terrific tactics to continually open up MU’s defence, but poor execution at the last. Great sense of urgency from start to finish but allowing ourselves to cross the line of anxiety let us down. Wonderful work up front for so much of the game but guilty of leaving the back door open.
These, in the cold light of day, are straightforward lessons to be learned.
The side and its performance needs some further adjustment, for sure. I have no doubt the tweaking has been happening for a while and we are close now to fine-tuning. Compared to how much work is required by so many of our opponents (eg Liverpool to name just one) we are not in such a bad place.
Fine tuning and lessons learned will see our season turn iitself around.
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Great stuff PG.
After some ‘mature’ reflection I am now willing to take the positives from Saturday’s game, and there were several.
We feckin’ hammered Manchester United. Full stop. One below the belt punch and a sneaky uppercut did us. There is enough attacking prowess in our team to have put us up to 26 points by now, But as Shotta notes- we ‘aint converting the chances properly. A little bit of greed/glory hunting/lack of trust in team mates – take your pick.
Our midfield without Arteta leaves out makeshift defence horribly exposed at times – and no one should be blaming the 2 junior members of that defence for Saturday’s result. Everyone was pushing forward to get the equaliser: it’s human nature. It is up to the players to put a fast midfielder on the half way line when everyone else is attacking, It’s not Arsenal policy to shout instructions from the side line.
We would have got the equaliser in Injury time too except for some expert timewasting by the red scum. It’s amazing in the press today that nobody thinks McNair’s hack at Jack was deliberate and no one is criticising officials for missing the Fellaini offside/shove in the back – (they are more concerned with Jack’s face off). West Ham were disallowed a goal for less at OT. The lack if interest in the media over PGMOL failings is truly shocking, Hull were at the receiving end of a match which seemed pre-decided by the ref yesterday.
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If Klopp want’s the Arsenal Job he’d better play for the draw on Wednesday.
BvB have enough domestic problems to worry about rather than going all gung-ho against us, the last time the did hatt it took them months to recover.
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If I was a naïve betting man I would have looked at the odds for yellow and red cards and lumped fairly heavily on a high card score, given the history between the two sides. That there were only two yellows for Arsenal and one for Man Utd shows the skill with which the game was managed. It must have been a skinner for the bookies.
But that, as they say, is none of my business.
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Michael Dean, the bookmakers’ friend ?
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