Today we have a guest post from Seebs @arse_or_brain
The ARSENAL collective has long been able to stretch its tentacles across all terrains of this greatly undulating earth, only now in greatly enhanced numbers. So there is no surprise that opinions will differ from time to time however the vastness of the differences is surprising. I’m not sure whether its nature or nurture, as in many cases, but do know the so called civil war has not just two sides , people are approaching from all angles.
There are many complete aresholes that just like moaning and would moan if we won the league every year, these are just very sad people and some of these even give the youth team shit. To slag off sixteen year olds that are often playing against a sides on average a year older and who are brought from all over Europe on big wages is lunacy. Our hale end graduates should be supported at all cost as their assent to the top is more difficult now than ever.
There are another group of the unsatisfied who been disadvantaged by the PL and sky and how football changed after Hillsborough and its acceptance for corporate rather than your traditional fan. This group are angry with the commercial world but their anger unfortunately is misdirected. The hatred of the ordinary fans by the government of the early eighties meant they could use all crisis and disasters to completely change the face of the working man’s game. The early interpretations of the Taylor report were designed to fade football away but as always the game was ready to fight back. When you are at your lowest you are susceptible to all sorts of evil and the devil that appeared was capitalism and the sale of the games soul. I do have some sympathy with this group until they dig at the manager, if they look at the bigger picture he is actually the salmon swimming upstream. The clubs status has depended on the success of the spawning and fertilization of the great mans ideas.
Then you have the group who have only seen the PL and are comparing Arsene with well….Arsene, obviously forgetting that early Arsene didn’t have to contend with the obstacles recent Arsene has had to climb. They assume money has no bearing on football and often use the old its still 11 v 11 and you still have to get them playing as a team. The trophies round the center of the stadium bear no relation to them, they believe chelski are the most successful London club and have always been in the top division. Apparently Ryan Giggs had played since the beginning of time and BoB Wilson just some ex-player.
Occasionally you will get the good old ARSENAL brigade who believe we were always the biggest club in the world and the gaps between the thirties to 48/53 and then to 71 and then to 89/91 and then to 98 just don’t exist. While Herbert Chapman’s legacy was to make us recognizable to even tribes in darkest Peru ( Patrick Barclays latest book is testament to this and well worth a read) the regular silverware and innovations stopped with the war. “THE ARSENAL” still had massive standing without ever really collecting the glory.
Obviously one of the worst groups, the ones who will believe absolutely anything tv, radio or the red tops tell them. After reading the headline Arsene Wenger ate my hamster you’re not going to think he’s a nice bloke are you. I hear the agenda biased media load the gun only for some lunatic with a red and white label to run around firing it off in all directions. Strange how their ideas always come just after a media suggestion although they think it is completely unique. Maybe there is something in this conception lark after all. Once again I have sympathy for this group but for a completely different reason…. it just worries me they have the vote as recent elections have shown.
As Passenal has previously commented some people will go to the game just to moan and some have literally been brought up this way, in the years since the move fans think this is a natural way to support your club they have been taught it, the more you criticize the more knowledgeable you are about your club and therefore the bigger supporter you are. If you shout out your not fit to wear the shirt it appears you have the knowledge to know what players have worn it in the past and you care so much more than any player ever could. This I believe is an unfortunate by-product of the move and the new entrants to regular ARSENAL whether they had been fans for a day or years. A different dynamic was definitely born with the new stadium.
After years of not going to away games the first day I went back to old Trafford I couldn’t believe they didn’t sing, it was deadly quite until they scored. chelski couldn’t even sell out their ground in Romans first years and so really in a way we shouldn’t be surprised about the discontents at our place however when you managed to acquire tickets to 75% of Wembley and get outsung from the start by a couple of northerners that’s when it gets embarrassing. When I first went to away games it felt like I was amongst a small group of gladiators fighting a massive army and our voice and our songs were weapons, even when the bottles came reigning in. To be outsung by a small group of other supporters was unthinkable. Fights among ARSENAL fans were reported at both final and semi final and although I thought this was a modern phenomena the ARSENAL historians at A.I.S.A have told me different as apparently the gents between the wars were partial to fisticuffs.
One final thought is the sudden change of attitude of those fans who said silverware was more important than fourth place until our defeat to everton and the abyss was being starred in to, amazingly Thursday nights didn’t seem so palatable.
Positively Arsenal 
C/F
NorthBank I think you have NOTH wrong , when you understand his writing style you will see he is praising you and the other 2 posters on ACLF for not following the current party line.
There is nothing snide about it.
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nice article a_or_b ! although you can round them all up under one category : wankers
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Quality post. Very nice indeed. The Arsenal Collective – did you coin that term AOB? Its catchy.
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Fantastic piece AorB,the whole oil money thing along with us actually buying and paying for our own stadium gets ignored more & more as each day passes but both factors are as relevant as they were when they both materialised,what Arsene has done will be looked back on as incredible ,maybe even by some of the people who are currently volleying him. Maybe.
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I think Untold use the term Anti Arsenal Arsenal to describe this phenomena. Some of Arsenal’s players from the fifties, who were champions, complained of over the top groaning…?
There has been an improvement inside the stands of the new stadium this season.
The signing of Özil may have scuppered some of the hopes and dreams of some obvious and consistent neo-feudalist gimps but for many fans it was a lift and a relief after the trauma of losing the two best players in the league and having to rebuild the team that was built around them. Trauma that online was probably best reflected in George’s and Frank’s correspondence/poetry. As this site’s critics like to disingenuously declare: It’s a good thing we all agree all of the time, eh!
The return of the old songs. People actually having a good time! Some decent football too, which helped. This team’s progress has been obvious unless you are being disingenuous (again). Chambo looked almost as good a Rambo in pre-season. However I’m not pining over the past. Unlike Falcao Walcott did not opt for the quick fix surgery so I’m hoping he’ll be able to recover well with players like Arteta helping to keep his head straight through the recovery (don’t ignore the physios and rush back like Wilshere and Vermaelan!) and to play ‘up top’ like he did in last appearance which was so exciting. Admittedly there will be harder challenges then Dawson in the future.
Add a Gnabry/Chamberlain/Campbell into the mix alongside Giroud/Sanogo and Walcott and back lines like the Tinies are in trouble (I’m ignoring CM, and Ramsey/Diabyesque box to box maestros here). Would Steve Bruce be able to start three at the back if you start a Walcott or Chamberlain on the flanks or at CF? Seemed crazy when Rodgers tried it in N5 in Liverpool’s league visit but with the speedsters out perhaps that is why he tried? But as we saw in that run before Christmas Ramsey and Özil had the skills, the brains and the pace to compensate. Only when they too were out did we see a drop. Note the lack of a critique from those AAA who went on to praise BR later in the season for such an error which is typically transparent from the AAA. A big error from BR, he had no need to play or expose the aging Toure to Ramsey’s torture,and considering how close they were in May such calls cost them in the end. Although he has done well as their manager and improved the Liverpool squad and their football I don’t think they’ll be as close next season. Intriguingly Sterling was a Benitez signing: another great manager like Ancelotti who has outdone Mourinhio at Chelsea though Jose’s gritty paramours in the press pack will never comment on these records which are there for all to see.
Benitez’s ripostes to the football hacks (& Ferguson and Mourinhio – please note the link between the hacks and two of Mendes’ favourite clients) here were worthy of respect, I like him.
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I do get the impression that Arsenal were a ‘big club’ in the pre-UEFA and FUFA era. It’s where the links with teams link Braga originate. And this unique history just makes me like the club even more.
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George the Pedantic @11:16am
I’ll read it again George…. from your perspective. Perhaps I was a bit too quick in responding and didn’t think it through. It was late and I’d just got back from the bar, a little bit legless. I’m always willing to review my behaviour when needed.
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Northbank, I do that a lot, but fortunately I can edit my posts.
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Such an interesting exchange last post, sorry I missed it. I mean Giroo, not the other. The point is AW’s seeming (we can guess, right?) tactical system/thinking for scoring in EPL and in stark contrast to tiki-taka Barca. Giroo was effective alright in a second season, make no mistake. But his full productivity, complete range of options, arises when Arsenal can field its fast and fluent wide players, Theo, Ox, maybe Gnabs and a more productive Lukas or other, like Vela. In the fact left side is the holy grail.
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OK George
I’ve re-read NOTH’s post and I can see what you mean, I was angry with the fact that NOTH obviously has an issue with ACLF and I wasn’t happy that he brought me, HenryB and Clockend into it. Especially Clockend because they never comment on your blog. I feel at the moment that I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place. I like the ACLF blog and I like yours too. I started off badly by upsetting Passenal and I don’t think Finsbury and I will ever get along because of our long outstanding disagreement over my comments about Pat Rice….. I’m willing to put that in the past but only time will tell. Anyway, it’s lunchtime and I’m gonna eat some chorizo and drink some wine!
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I have said it before but I shall repeat it again
Seasons tickets
Sold without a thought without the requirement for the holder to pass a rigorous examination not just on the history of the club and the rules of the game but also to examine their moral fibre.
As a result we have far too many in the ground, having paid what they regard as a “fortune”, who are frankly just not up to it.
There needs to be a vigorous weeding of the support.
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For those who fall below the required standard the if they wish to remain supporters of the club then while attending games or participating in any form of social media would be banned ( obviously) it may be some form of “re-education” camps could be available.
Say, three years following Leyton Orient before a probationary return to the Ems
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Interesting Post a_or_b
I agree with much that you say.
We all tend to look at football in isolation to explain some of the disproportionate moaning we hear from the fans, and lets be honest fans of other clubs also moan like buggery too.
However, society has changed a great deal over current times and two news items I heard recently show this phenomenon. The ambulance service have said they are very concerned that lives could be lost because of emergency delays. Instead of traffic moving over when they hear the ambulance siren and see the blue lights which has been observed for generations, drivers are now becoming so selfish that many of them are now refusing to do so. [Bastards}
In the second instance, two really bad viruses have been let loose to hack into innocent peoples computers. However, it turns out that some of the tricks that hackers used to fool people by directing them to a dangerous site, have now been amended so that big companies are now doing the same thing by luring customers into expensive products.
In other words, Arsenal’s fans should be looked at in the context that society is becoming shittier year on year. Sad – but what can you do?
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anicoll5
Leyton Orient.. Deep joy.
HenryB… interesting points, I see a blog post developing within me!
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Great stuff aob. In reflection it’s obvious the Arsenal collective is a very loose composition and it’s extra visible or rather audible in ‘bad times’. Wenger was always going to be the biggest victim in such times. Because of his success he easily becomes the epitome of AFC and the source people turns to as point of divide. He is tangible unlike political changes, new economic order or self inadequacy. Of course for some of us who had opportunity and been able to observe the man for 17 years in a calmly manner it’s hard to comprehend the over top criticism that followed. And also maybe because we were bedded in a false sense of unity before the fall out it felt extra bitter. Anyway, not sure where I’m going with this except maybe I think with the cup win and a better financial competiveness a new unity may be under way. But this time I will better see its superficious nature and have my reservations.
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With all those season tickets being returned in protest I’m not sure if they’ll be anyone left to take any tests.
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The playoff penalty heartache for the O’s almost took away some of the joy from the FA Cup victory.
http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/sport/football/footballnews/11252901.Former_Leyton_Orient_defender_Bobby_Fisher_reflects_on_racism_in_football/?ref=rss
The big time hacks like to spend most of their time discussing transfers, can’t imagine why, but there are so many interesting stories in football and Orient like the Arsenal are one of them.
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HenryB
June 3, 2014 at 1:07 pm
find and watch : what the bleep do we know – down the rabbit hole (2006)
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Özil:
https://t.co/K4A1h0IbSV
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In case that link doesn’t work:
There’s a famous quote from Culann Davies, who’s been churning out these compilations since he was about twelve (the flip side of social media! You can now find many of his comps on the Arseblog site).
“Arsene Wenger is better then all you cunts”
Hunter would have approved of such youthful wisdom.
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thanks for the comments everyone, I have realised in hast to post ofF the article I had forgotten the most important group The fans, those who just want to enjoy arsenal and understand the hurt in the bad times will just make the good times better. It is easy even in bad times to find something to smile about if you want to find it.
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the world cup is poorer without paraguay
its a disgrace of epic proportions….
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dear santa ..xmas is 6 months away but ive been good…
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Lol hunter that cracked me up almost as much as seeing Arsene in shorts. And here I thought football was created so men can hug men without prejudice.
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Big Culann Davies fans here. He just loves to defend players through his compilations.
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Apropos
June 3, 2014 at 4:14 pm
la stresse de grande……
difficulty in breathing …all this stress…
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I know, stupid sexy Wenger.
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have we all seen g.o.t s4/e8…is it safe to talk?
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I think Frank would have appreciated today’s post. Arsenal is a big club, but in many ways its become a big idea too, again. It’s the idea that so entrances supporters throughout the world. Not many clubs become big ideas.
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ok im convinced….bring cesc back immediately
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I agree 100% with Adrian Clarke http://wp.me/p43RFb-16d
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That means I’m not convinced, Cesc is surplus to requirements.
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i mentioned the exact same thing ( upsetting the apple cart) when you had the debate post about it…but no…bring him back immediately….. if the others start crying then wenger to lay down the law…all equal – everyone will get his chance.
As for this:
“Would the manager sign Fabregas just to stop rivals such as City, United, Chelsea or Liverpool having him? No. That’s not the way he works.”
Well….we have to start thinking that way at some point……perhaps the owner/president tells arsene to step aside and handle this…
if cesc is indeed allowed to leave barca…and comes to the premiership….and is not wearing our red and white then that would be a crime and very very unpleasant…….vanpersie who isnt as likeable and it turns my stomach when i see him wearing the united shirt…
anyway..sumemr transfer bollocks..who knows..
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Good grief – Adrian does supermarket sweep !
One point I am complete agreement with is if, as appears 100%, Bacary is out then a new right back is a priority – I like the names he highlights, all of them in fact. Uchida is a decent call and one who is experienced, and any player nicknamed the Bison has to be one that I could love.
My only minor, minor niggle is they are both 5’9″ – short-arses therefore – and as I have ranted on about before I want more height.
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And so Frank Lampard – the curtain falls
If ever there was a player who made the best out of the spoonful of talent God had granted them,
It was Lampard junior
I salute you
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I don’t want to see fabregas play for united or chelsea, that sentiment overrides any little sense I have of team dynamic. And Arsene has done tactical buy before, Ljungberg. As for the article in whole I was pretty disappointed, very speculative for someone from inside. The only thing I can really agree with is that we are now a very attractive prospect for any player. From selling players to Barcelona to plucking players from Madrid, and they say we haven’t made progress. Ohh, to stay with the speculative thou, Pogba would excite me no end.
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It may be my age but I just don’t ‘get’ Mario Balotelli
“He’s brilliant” people say
Is he ?
He has the odd flash of excellence now and then,
the problem is that the odd flash is contained in a large vat of weekly mediocrity, and if its going wrong well hell, Mario will not be there putting his back in
And then of course there is Mario the personality, the bigger than life, fuck you, fire-raising, I am it, Mario, that no manager in their right mind would touch with a bargepole
and yet they do
But some are younger than others
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Balotelli is the kind of player Wenger has stayed away from before. M’vila springs to mind. Although he has been able to handle a few of them, like Adebayor. I think it was the secret footballer who said it, managers can’t stay away from this kind of players because they all like to think they are the best manager and able to tap into that talent when other managers failed. Again Adebayors name pops up in my mind.
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Apropos, were you expecting Adrian to write a blog containing sensitive insider information? Good luck with that wish, what are your other 2?
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Its true Apropos – like moths to the flame
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No, just surprised he went through the whole list the tabloids given us past month. It would have been enough to hear where he thinks we need reinforcements and what type of players in that position. Considering how infected transfer discussions are it doesn’t do the club any good to speculate on all these big names. It would have been more interesting to hear more on why he thinks we need two more forwards.
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It was interesting to hear him name Pogba because I don’t think I’ve seen him linked to us before. But you see what I or rather Clarke just did now?
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Anicoll, ‘appy ‘arry wheeling down his car window as we speak.
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Good read from our very own Seebs, thanks buddy!
Fuck me, is that Stewart Robson I hear co-commentating the Brasil v Paraguay game?
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Very good, seebs, very comprehensive.
There have been some absolute corkers on PA recently.
@ anicoll5 June 3, 2014 at 6:23 pm
It must be my age as well, because I don’t get him either. The vanity and oversized ego of CRonaldo without the reliability.
And for the record, both anicoll5 and I are *cough* 36.
People, stop talking about Pogba. I can only hold it together through the transfer window if you don’t get me too excited.
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WELL DONE A OR B
I wanted to make an important comment about a group missed but you fixed it by your 3:51 pm post.
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I can’t stop ogling those pics posted by Hunter…….
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My wife is trying hard to explain that what I’m doing is wrong and sinful….
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Can I just say I’ve found a few minutes to comment, but I have been reading the past few post and thought that they were great. I am a bit sad I didn’t get to comment on the appropriate days.
This article kind of sums up why I have disengaged a little bit from the Arsenal blogashere. I’ve gotten tired of reading and trying to converse with people who can seem to work out that football world has changed and Arsenal have done well to keep pace. The constant need for scapegoats and people to vent at within the club has been embarrassing.
I think I might bookmark today’s post.
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….On the Catalan coward topic, I am surprised that more people haven’t clocked that this is a 2010 rerun of a series of events concerning Cesc. Where there was a lot of speculation over the course of the South African WC. Only this time Barca & Dein Jr aren’t using the press to force his client a move away from Arsenal, he is trying to force his way back TO Arsenal. Cesc could go to PSG or Monaco, but he’s watched Flamini this season, Henry the year before and wants back in. The only problem is I don’t think we need him this year and if he does come back, he will just be another player.
If Maureen signed Cesc for Chelsea, that would be as good as public admitting he made a mistake selling Mata and that he was worried that another player who doesn’t want to play for him in Eden Hazard, may yet still get his wish to move. If AW doesn’t want him, he shouldn’t be forced to bring him back out of fear that he might go to a rival.
It’s just my personal opinion, but I believe certain quarters of the press have been incentivised to keep the Cesc transfer story alive. There are a lot of players on the free transfer list who are yet to declare there next club and have hardly had much coverage. Why is that?
AW warned him, it would all end in tears, but Cesc didn’t listen. If Cesc is determined to come back to the Premier League I wouldn’t be too mournful if it was else where.
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@ Goona Gal
Wise words
“AW warned him, it would all end in tears, but Cesc didn’t listen.”
It’s typical of him that he left a year too soon for us and wants to come back a year too late.
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Some thanks are in order:
Thanks Seebs for the article which I much enjoyed. I am still struggling to understand how it is possible for some fans to dislike their club so much, but I take comfort in the fact that the majority (and we saw this after the FA Cup) clearly love the club, team and manager.
Thanks Fins for at last letting me know what AAA stands for, which had puzzled me for some time.
Thanks to GG and FG for nailing the Cesc business so brilliantly. Timing is all.
And thanks to Positively and Untold Arsenals who have added so much to my fun.
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