Never mind the buglers, where’s the FA Cup/4th place or better?
The fans are split, that’s a given.
But they are not split between AKB’s and WOB’s. Oh no, there are another set that sit between the two extremes. Just like in politics, the battle is won or lost in the middle ground. The vast majority of fans are floating voters. Within this middle ground there will be – and is – a full spectrum of ever changing feelings.
I would guess that up until Xmas the vast majority were happy and very much behind the manager.
Now? Who knows?
But it will be a whole lot less. And the amount they have shifted their positions will also differ greatly. Some will have had enough, while others may just have some nagging doubts.
Here is the crux.
They are all Arsenal fans.
They all want what is best for them. (Oh sorry – I meant “what is best for the club”). They all want us to win every game, they all want to win stuff, and they all want to be happy.
There is however, a basic divide.
Have the last 9 years been a success (as I believe) or have they been a failure? Therefore, has the manager overachieved or underachieved ?
David Dein recently said that the stadium move would have been impossible without the success Arsene had brought. Ray Parlour said that some of the loans to build the stadium were conditional on Arsene signing a 5 year deal. Arsene has told us he agreed to stay knowing that the league title was very unlikely. Ivan has admitted that there were indeed financial restraints that they had previously denied .
So taking those things into consideration, what was in Arsene’s job description? What did the board actually ask of him?
What was best for the club?
Arsene himself had said that his priority was qualifying for the Champions League with the financial rewards that follow it. He did that every year, and given his resources, that was an over-achievement. This isn’t my opinion, it’s a fact backed up by impartial data. The AST had an analysis done (I suspect they were disappointed with the results) which proved beyond doubt that this was the case.
People will point out that it’s not his job to make the club money, his job is to win trophies, but the reality is that his job is to achieve what his employers ask him to achieve. That may be very different to what a fan would want him to do.
If we finish in the top 4 and win the FA cup, I expect the undecided will once again shuffle towards us.
If we don’t?
Well we know all too well what will happen.
Positively Arsenal 
anicoll5 goodmorning!!
it sure is , but is it sustainable? it is nice to win games with the last kick of the game but hanging/banking on circumstances of the last minute overall panic in a football match isnt ideal. the masses will always remember for instance that united did the treble,i remember that bayern should have won that final 5-0 and united was nowhere and fluked it. yet we have to tolerate a version of the events which is for chidlren….
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Harry
lol… happy easter !!
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Hunter,
I have to disagree with you there. I think. Not to sure to be honest.
I enjoy late winners in games, less time left for an equaliser!. However, going two up early in games, like against Napoli, that was nice too. Then there’s the satisfaction of taking a lead in the first half in a close game against a rival and leaving them a little hope to only crush them in the second half with a goal like the one Ramsey scored against Liverpool. Sometimes in order to be cruel you have to be a little bit kind. Much more satisfying then any 4/5 goal drubbing *coughs*, in truth Arsenal should’ve won by four that day, I was a little disappointed they didn’t.
As long as Arsenal win, I’m happy.
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how dare you submit arsenal fans into inquisition……far more preferable to do it to wenger, gazidis and the players via online comments, media and twitters…the bastards…taking 7 m to fail us every year……..democracy football 🙂 we pay therefore we can question… nevermind if we dont know shit…
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finsbury April 19, 2014 at 11:26 am
oh i dont mind at all…personally i prefer to win and leave no doubt as to to who was the superior team. sure its nice to take advantage of circumstances say like liverpool is doing this year but lets see them next year …
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And I supposed northbank left us all impressed? I called him out because I’ve seen his train of logic before. He starts by crediting the manager for given his all to the club. Claim he’s behind the man, well at least 80%. Then he follows up by planting the doubts, not genius anymore, maybe not best option to bring us forward. After that the disguised miscrediting begins. We have all seen this before, not just happening to our manager. We see this happen in working life to managers and co-workers and sometimes even among so called friends. It’s all very cowardly. And fronted by this he responds with Lols and smileys a poor analogy and finally log off calling some posters poor quality. Just man up
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If people like Harry Flowers and Northbank feel unwelcome ,and that they have to walk on egg-shells IF they come, then we have become something we should question.
In fact I am going to write an article about what WE have become.
I dont like it.
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I have no beef with the man and never interacted with him before. I honestly thought he seemed a nice fellow with all the Lols and smileys. But as things rolled out I had to call him out. I don’t have the energy or patience of hunter and some other posters here to confront hypocrisy at other blogs, but when it happens here were I consider to be my playground, well then I speak up.
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Look forward to that article. Monkey of my back.
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Hunter, forget about Liverpool, I’m excited by this evolving Arsenal front line.
We all saw Arsenal lose the “Goal Machine” Walcott after the type of performance he put in up top that day (ok ok, I know Dawson was involved…). Goddamn, that was exciting football.
Whenever Walcott and Chamberlain are on the pitch together I’m very happy, even if it won’t always work. Unless A.Taylor is out there too (first game of the season, that was it for this season…*sobs*). Özil’s sly runs compensated, so I managed to get my fix there for a while with one of the two plus Özil.
Next year: Walcott, Chamberlain, Gnabry (think he is injured atm) & Campbell as the senior Speedsters? If as likely the club bring in more strikers then then latter two could have spells on loan with others like Ryo and Akpom adding cover on top of the signings in the Pace department.
The way I see the squad is similar to how Fungunner described her cake. But I disagree (sorry, hope that’s allowed) and I believe that this cake already has the icing on it. Just missing one or two berries, some caramel maybe.
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And Harry lay off with the PA version of inquisition nonsense. It was a couple of posters here calling northbank out with him given free room to respond. PA have many posters with different view. Don’t try to categorize us.
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“If people like Harry Flowers and Northbank feel unwelcome ,and that they have to walk on egg-shells IF they come”,
How they feel is their problem. If Northbank had said ‘in my opinion’ then there is something to be discussed. When he comes in with opinion which he is trying to pass off as fact and he is called on it, where is the problem? It seems to me that the people who love to criticise the most can’t take a little bit of challenge themselves and then start pouting and we are supposed to feel sorry for them and walk on egg shells around them?
I’m starting to feel the thin end of the wedge here – and that is my opinion.
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To clarify my own comment at 11.01 Apropos at 11:40 describes what I once unfortunately read regarding Pat Rice.
You can’t disagree with Passenal (IBSF – I have done so once or twice in huge past. Never again!)
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*coughs* huge < the
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“NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition”
“Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms……..”
Sorry – I’ll get my mitre
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Apropos (of nothing),
Calling him out on what? saying AW looks rather tired? (and obviously that’s his opinion) Jesus wept. He does (sue me). if you have to second guess what you say to such a ridiculous degree for fear of offending someone, then you can’t blame the guy for thinking it’s just not worth the effort.
“the disguised miscrediting”
Have a listen to yourself. Seriously 😉
Sorry George!
As you were.
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Harry, seriously, why would it be worthwhile to discuss with you what northbank said or not said, meant or not meant, guessed or not second guessed?
But, seriously, apropos everything, in a grown up world you are held to account for what you say or do, not what you meant or intended or didn’t.
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Harry, you may think some of us are rather prickly leaping to the defence of Arsene at the slightest whim however I don’t think its the actual comment that offends but use of another stick to put on the pile of abuse he receives. Tactics, results, silverware, spending etc,etc you could go on and on and after they have all been debated someone goes in with yeah well he looks tired, its not a passing comment enquiring after the welfare of the manager, its a straw to be clutched at and a bitter one at that. I might have the comments intent completely wrong but after seeing more barbs than in sleeping beauties forest aimed Arsenes way you can understand if we’re abit prickly
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You are a star aob
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He always appears to be the type of easy going chap that wouldn’t hurt a fly (unless it was an enormous Jeff Goldblum type fly that stole his woman and then drank his wine), nothing remotely “bitter” about him at all. I shouldn’t imagine he’s looking for a stick with which to beat Arsene with either, rather like myself, he’s a huge admirer of the man, just proffering the observation that AW looks weary (hardly surprising, considering the nature of some of the defeats in the last few months) and wondering, by extension, if he’s taken us as far as he can (or however you wish to phrase it).
Change has to come sooner or later btw.
And yes it’s mere conjecture, but then most of this stuff is.
Enjoy your weekend.
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Interesting comments, a bit lively.
Agree with Apropos and Passenal. Disingenuous is a word and some posters at a certain bearish website have perfected it. Much more deadly than Le Grove, because it is disguised. Machiavelli style, not the rapper mind you.
Anyways, a few more matches to go and a cup final to top off an interesting season.
Incidentally, I think I read someone on an Arsenal blog quoting the old Chinese curse ‘May you live in interesting times’, which basically means, be careful what you wish for. Applied to Mr Wenger leaving, of course. I thought it was a nice quote. Maybe loses something in translation…maybe a menacing voice…[Darth Vader voice-over] “May You Live In Interesting Times”.
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I tried to keep out of this thread but, well,
“Change has to come sooner or later btw”
I think we all appreciate that Arsenal have attempted to adapt to the changes in football: new stadium, new sponsorships deals etc. and aren’t we lucky the current manager has built rebuilt a squad in the last three seasons that will include a great gift to the next manger? You remember (I hope): Ramsey, and all the others.
“a man he has respect for?” No.
I remember Northbank said he was worried about Pat Rice not standing up, looking tired. Is he ageist? Perhaps it was all a misunderstanding? Of course Pat’s knees are knackered (ex-footballer) but that is not the reason he might have been “tired” or finally left the club he had been at since he was a teenager where he has had an input into every modern success at the club since 1971. For those of us who like Pat grew up near the stadium he isn’t just Mr.Arsenal, the local lad who talked his way into the ranks and made it first as a great player and then as a great coach, Pat Rice represents all that is good in football. Of course people had the right to question what he did, if they were so inclined, they just did not have to do it with such poor grace.
Coincidentally shortly after he retired it was announced that Pat Rice has cancer.
Please remember what Pat Rice had to say when he spoke at the stadium recently. That is respect. Can’t find the transcript so this will have to do: http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/34572
Poor form is poor form.
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I wasn’t going to come back onto Georges blog but someone has just suggested I have a looksy. George, I definately don’t feel that I have to walk on eggshells here and if the issue had been big enough then I would have stayed and gone toe to toe. However, everyone knows what I said now, the only thing it seems that I failed to do was preface my observation about Arsene with, ‘In my opinion’.
The reason I left the forum was that it was such a petty thing and really not worth the effort, it really wasn’t.
Apropos:
You didn’t call me out, get over yourself! you made an assumption that my comment was some darker devious plan to bring down your beliefs and philosophy. Well I’m sorry to disappoint you but I’m not intellegent enough to make devious plans like that. And I leftb the forum because I really couldn’t be arsed to argue with someone so juvenile.
When an individual or a group have a tendancy toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others it is called Paranoia.
Finsbury:
Bloody hell, you hold a grudge for a long time, I’d see your doctor about that because it could seriously affect your mental health. My observations about Pat at the time was that he didn’t seem to be having an affect on the defence and lacked any animation on the touchline. In hindsight, at no stage was I “shrieking for his head like an idiot”
In hindsight and based on what we know about his health I feel really bad about my opinion at that time. However, now that Bould has helped to build a credible defence then perhaps I have been vindicated.
Passenal:
Having to put “in my opinion” before every observation is very childlike. I think people are intellegent enough to realise if someone is saying something and not backing up the statement with facts, then it is clearly an opinion.
Arse or brain:
From your comment at 1.35pm: Yes, people got extremely prickly and very quickly indeed. My comments were misconstrued and then pounced upon as if I was the biggest Wenger hater on the planet. I wasn’t using any stick or any underhanded route to put Arsene down. It was an honest observation of a man I admire.
George and Harry:
Thanks for the support but not really neccessary. George,I look forward to your essay about fan blogs and what they have become and how they treat other fans..
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NB 1969
It’s not my problem you attempted to call me a cunt becasue I asked you to stop treating Pat Rice like a cunt.
Why should anyone have any time for such disingenious gibberish?
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“credible defence?”
George. You’re ‘avin a larf with this bollocks mate.
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Interested by AW’s comments about Giroud and “maybe” overplaying him. Pounced on, of course, by some who claim that it proves that the manager hasn’t a clue, doesn’t learn from mistakes, grinds players into the ground etc. But I wonder if they are slightly missing the point. If we want to keep Giroud then to bolster his confidence by suggesting that his lack of form was not entirely down to him is good man management. If we want to sell him, then you want to talk up his qualities to get the best price you can. Either way, it seems to me that despite looking tired in the opinion of some, AW remains a man to avoid playing cards with.
And although we all obviously think the current squad is excellent, might it be possible to indulge in a little bit of transfer porn and say which three players we would like to see grace The Ems next season. Realistic options only, and additions rather than replacements. Would like to hear some sensible opinions and get back to talking about football.
And yes, I am bored at the moment with no Saturday game and off the booze too.
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“credible defence?”
You have lost me Fins.
I fell like I’m between a rock and a hard place here.
We are in danger of becoming no more than cheer-leaders. As they are collage students ,some of them will be very bright, but all people see is pom-poms ,whirling sticks and a load of people shouting “GO ARSENE GO GO GO”
Then again, we don’t want to hear “OUT ARSENE OUT OUT OUT”
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Finsbury
How can I “attempt to call you a cunt”…. I either did or I didn’t, If my memory serves me correctly, I never called anyone a cunt on any blog.
And here you go again….. focusing on one small comment without taking in the bigger picture..
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Oh right, I’ve seen it now Fins. Bollocks indeed.
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George…. the responsibility of being the chief! 🙂
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Meh, George. It’s the same old crap, nothing you haven’t come across before.
If you want to see a dictionary definition of disingenious I recommend observing someone who heckled Pat Rice in the past becasue for some reason they didn’t have the footballs to heckle the manager at the time (that is what it was) subsequently attempt to give Bould (and note no one else) the credit for signing Mertesacker, Koscielny, Sagna’s recovery, Vermaelan regaining his form, Gibbs maturing… it is weak.
I’ve never seen this blog as a blog full of people shouting “Go Arsene go”.
Anicoll is here and he’s not even Theo’s biggest fan. How did you let him on? 🙂
I have seen it as a blog where people can come and enjoy watching their football without staring into their Expert navels, avoid excessive talk of transfers when no transfers can be made and the kind of morbid disingenuity we witnessed elsewhere when it wasn not even possible to celebrate a 5-2 win over 5pur2s – which was a definte low for those concerned though they may not even realise it.
What I don’t like is Hunter trolling other blogs, sorry Hunter, but that’s his buisness. He won’t listen to me!
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George @ 4.13
Damn. You just made me write all that for nuffink!
Indeed. It is bollocks.
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What a kerfuffle !
Roll on 2 o’clock Sunday afternoon when we will all have something to get our teeth into – hopefully Steve Bruce
(And ssshhhhhhh about Theo – I am a reformed character – sly wink)
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Case closed!
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The assumptions you make Finsbury are truly incredible. I never said I was giving credit to Bould for signing the players. You assumed I said that!!!!! Is mind reading one of your talents?
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Apropos April 19, 2014 at 1:29 pm
Harry, seriously, why would it be worthwhile to discuss with you what northbank said or not said, meant or not meant, guessed or not second guessed?
But, seriously, apropos everything, in a grown up world you are held to account for what you say or do, not what you meant or intended or didn’t.
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And that’s why we are here.
Thanks George.
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Ok Foreverheady I’ll play
My wish list for Summer would be Ballotelli, Coleman and Gündoğan
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Three players
Dan Burn
Kevin Strootman
The bloke from Dnpeir, begins with K and has 14 consecutive consonants in his name
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Konoplyanka – that’s it – easy
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lol of course he looks weary and teary ..had would you feel if you went to a local b+ b and turned it into a las vegas 7 star franchise and then had the porters and the bartenders telling you you dont know business and finance…wouldnt you laugh?
i would say there are fans who have a certain idea/image in their minds of what arsenal “should” be and when they dont see that materialise they take it out on the manager. ignoring the fact that other clubs have many geniuses in many positions to reach the stage theyre in. arsenal only has one and they have left him on his own to deal with everything.
when we discuss footy in the office/pubs/parks/clubs, they try to make me feel embarassed for still supporting wenger on the basis that fans want trophies and without the fans the club would be nothing therefore the club must win trophies for its fans….to me thst the mentality of a 10yearold but i cant call them stupid right in their faces cause they get offended even though they understand fully well that what fans want and what the club can do are two different things.
another thing is that a section of fans have failed to identify with what the club has become but that is not arsenal’s problem that is a general probelm in football. and if chelsea hadnt won everything in club football in a decade making arsenal and wenger look like mugs for wanting to do it in a more ethical way we wouldnbt have these uberfans killing time on the internet “debating” and “questioning” and blah blah..
critics get paid to release bigotry and talk shit on art….our fans do it for free…..heheeee..
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lol fins i am a little satan at times i admit … but its fun to mock and bring down to earth those who consider themselves capable enough or knowledgable or even smart enough to critisise wenger and arsenal…..
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Aurier
Bender
Konoplyanka
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Lars or Sven ?
( could I tell the difference?)
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Keep Sagna (if possible?)
Keep Vermaelan (should be possible? Post WC season etc.)
CMs? No idea. Sven has the longer hair, I think. Can’t be sure.
Striker/s. More pace up top (personal preference!). Promoting Gnabry and Cambpell or included with any new strikers or both.
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Ballotelli:
Bear in mind I don’t know very much but I got the chance to see Mario live when Arteta scored and Arsenal beat City. His head was really not in the game, he was told off by Andre Santos! So I took the chance to ask some nice City fans what they thought of Mario after the recent game. Research. And they said that his head was often not in the game. They prefer Aguero. I used to prefer Aguero as my fantasy signing after Arsenal lost Eduardo, course in those days he was completely out of the budget, and definitely not worth pinning over on the internet. Can’t think of anyone who is available who stands out like Aguero used to, but as above I don’t know very much.
If the rumoured £30M bid for Cavani was true, was that therefore a lucky escape at that price (for Arsenal) given his recent performances and the fee that he eventually went for? He’s no Suarez! Hehe. Arsenal definitely identified the right player last summer. Looking at the numbers he’d be getting even less penalties at Arsenal but ignoring off the field stuff it would be hard to disagree Arsenal knew what they needed/wanted.
At the least Hunter deserves some credit for not crying all season long over Suarez, especially out of respect for those here who *coughs* disagreed with him and never wanted the player (IBSF). Although I never declared at that time when the debate was happening, because the deal hadn’t happened, I was definitely Suarez In. He’s quick!
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This “debate” with Northbank1969 is very interesting because it reminded me so much of what evolved at Left Foot and its eventual demise as a blog with any definable identity.
Stage 1: Blog initially establishes itself as a being generally pro-Wenger in a generally anti-Arsene blogsphere (from the middle-of-the-roaders to those virulently opposed to the Wenger-way)
Stage 2: Blog grows organically as more and more like-minded supporters find a haven to express their support, in contrast to the anti Wenger vitriol elsewhere. Due to the liveliness and enthusiasm of the posters in particular, the blog attains an important niche status as a site for an alternate point of view especially when the prevailing wisdom is to attack and isolate Wenger for not competing along conventional lines.
Stage 3: Pro-Wenger blog has attained sufficient popularity online it can no longer be ignored by the anti-Wenger crowd. Having failed to either ignore the blog or to attack from outside they are impelled to get inside and attack from within. The initial vulgar anti-Arsene tactics are easily repelled e.g. “In Wenger We Rust.” Gradually more subtle tactics to “Deny/Disrupt/Degrade/Deceive” are used. There is initial pushback from the core supporters who see the initial principles of supporting the manager under attack. The infiltrators complain that they are being denied the right to criticize. It is at this point that the blogger-in-chief is caught in a dilemma. Being overtly pro-Wenger limits scope for popularity vs the temptation of opening the doors deny and becoming a bigger blog.
Stage 4: Stick or twist?
PS: I was the 1st to say at Left foot 1-2 years ago that it was like “walking on egg shells” to come out in support of AW on that blog. Harry and Northbank1969 came to PA knowing full well that the blog is in general support of the manager. Why would Northbank in particular covertly attack the manager and not expect pushback? Its like going to Le-Grove praising the manager and expecting a wave of welcoming posts.
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and in the day…yes ..perhaps the owners should have warned the fans that ” hey we aint interested to play this game ala chelsea and city, we will build, develop players form academy and sell for profits” …but how do you do that in a company which has just borrowed 450m to build a stadium and needs sell out crowds ? if the fan loves his team he needs no explanations..if the fan loves the trophies then yes this was a known period of suffering. where is the owner who will say ” i want the title(s) no matter what” and to act accordingly in the transfer markets and protect club in uefa and f.a? has arsenal have such owners? did they ever? wenger wont be lost if he leaves arsenal…psg madrid and many others will come chasing him for his signature …arsenal though? who knows…..
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Can’t be sure but I think Mario has a major chip on his shoulders and not really a team player. Could be counterproductive to the team spirit and cohesions built with hard effort bringing him in GEORGE.
FINSBURY
well done filling in the historical background regarding PAT RICE. vindicated? Pfffft . Some should bow their head down in shame & learn from past mistakes. NOTH, APROPOS, PASSENAL & SAV from down under. Great vigilance and insight. If FRANK was here he would call you superstars. Take a bow.
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now with regards to this issue here now today with northbank and our fellow regulars think were both drowning in a table spoon of water… 🙂 …. chill… its easter as long as noone is disrespected ( heavily) were cool ..i think… what i dont like is what others did to us who would immediately lable us as deluded for having the “audacity” to support a tested method rather than jump on the media bandwagon of hating what we do as a football club. i believe this place is far more open than other places where you are afraid to talk positively about your fucking club for gods sake in fear that someone will attack you and call you basically a wenger fan…yes i am a wenger fan and proud. without him football would be full of cunts just spending for titles to please the masses …opium of the people etc etc…we have something a lot more clever in arsenal. it sucks it hasnt worked as we would have hoped but that is not wenger’s fault. because he was going for it with eduardo and they smashed his players and “killed” their spirits. three – four years later he loses fabregas…this year he got fucked by injuries and a schedule that not even the barcelona of pep would have coped with, plus when we wanted our leaders and main goalkeeper to stand up they let goals in like traffic wardens….frrrrrr pass…
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