I was asked a simple and fair question on twitter some time ago by Andy Wood @yorkshiregunner .
“Tell me George, will you still support Arsenal when Arsene leaves?”
(As people continue to misquote my reply here again is the blog I wrote about it)
Now I understand that it was a snide question, a loaded question, designed to suggest that Arsene was more important to me than the club. I knew that before I answered with this:
Not for 100% sure. It would be hard to think I won’t. But I could stop. It’s like a marriage for me, not a family. If you follow?”
This of course was immediately interpreted to mean: “I will stop supporting if Arsene leaves.” Just as I had anticipated!
People then started screaming that one’s support for the club should be unconditional. “ARSENAL TILL I DIE!!”
And all the other soundbites people use.
Then they saw fit to state the obvious with gems like:
“No one is bigger than the club.”
No shit Sherlock, I had missed that.
As the Twitter exchange continued, I tried to explain that I could not guarantee always supporting the club, because if it changed into something different to that I was in love with, it would no longer be my club.
This concept seemed beyond the comprehension of a few, and some claimed that NOTHING could make them withdraw their support. Ever.
There’s an irony here, in case you hadn’t already spotted it …
So I came up with the most outrageous scenario I could think of, just to test their ‘position’ and asked if they would still support the club if the following occurred:
The club is bought by the English Defence League and all our players are sold, only white heterosexuals are allowed to play for the club. Do you still support?
Almost every right thinking person would say:
“No, it’s a stupid scenario, but no.”
My point being that ALL support is conditional. It’s just the conditions that are required to be met are different, and they vary from person to person.
What some people fail to understand is that “the club” means different things to different people.
My definition of “the club” includes the playing style, its class, history and integrity. The manager, board and players are a large part of that. The whole ethos of the club is what I regard “the club” to be.
Someone told me that “the club” to him was the badge, and that is what he supported. He didn’t mention whether the badge in question was cotton or man-made, so I reserved my judgement on him.
But, nonetheless, for him, the definition of the club was different.
My main point in all of this is that regardless of your personal definition of what the club – or anything you have fallen in love with – is, if that thing you fell in love with, changes to the degree where they or it becomes something or someone you would never have originally fallen for, then it is ENTIRELY possible to fall back out of love.
And this patently includes, even, one’s own chosen football club.
Now, if you are happy to support a club, fuelled by petro-dollars, managed by a hoof-ball specialist or filled with players like Barton, Suarez, Terry, Savage, Cole and Rooney – then great. But I would find it hard to continue that support, ultimately, even if that club was my beloved Arsenal.
It would be a gradual deterioration of the relationship between me and the club, but given the perfect (and frankly unlikely) storm, I COULD stop supporting.
There has been a lot of “I want my Arsenal back” going around in recent times.
Well, I personally want to keep THIS one.
These people that claim to ‘want their Arsenal back’ are effectively saying this current Arsenal is not “their” club.
Effectively, they’ve withdrawn their support already.
This is evidenced by their relentless attacks on the club and it’s staff – on Twitter, in blogs, on radio phone-ins etc. Those individuals who have given up their season ticket have clearly withdrawn their support. They are, as a result, no longer proper pucka Gooners are they?
The anger evident in their remarks is quite possibly driven by the pain they are feeling from losing their love for the club.
Well, maybe they ARE still Gooners.But they have simply come to a point where their support has been withdrawn. Do they watch on TV instead? Or has that been given up too? Have they stopped reading the papers? Do they no longer talk about Arsenal?
If they are still Gooners, it’s clear that bit-by-bit they are losing – or have lost – their love for the club as the conditions that led them to support in the first place are no longer seemingly evident.
For THEM, at least.
Now people can say that they are better fans than me because they have supported longer, spent more money, attended more games, live in the area of the ground or because nothing could stop them supporting. I won’t argue.
I certainly won’t care what they think either.Because they can claim all day long that they are the ‘real’ supporters of the club. But the reality, actually, is that they are drifting away from the club with every attack they launch.
***
Finally someone said:
“Morals in football are bollocks.”
To which I replied:
“Morals are only ever bollocks to those without them.”
I however ,am the last person to judge people on their morals.That does not mean they are any less important.
Positively Arsenal 
Sorry George, misunderstood. But yes, you’re right, that’s it.
LikeLike
What the fuck happened to my keyboard?
LikeLike
It’s the support I get – and the further requirement I don’t understand on which unconditional support relies
LikeLike
I wear a support…..its supports me unconditionally….
LikeLike
I have a friend with a spare ticket tomorrow for city, north bank Lower.
Amongst loyalists.
LikeLike
Anicoll 8:46
5 negros ?
Wait toll this guy figures out we have played more micks, frogs and krauts,!
Keep England out of Europe I say.
LikeLike
Been talking to Muppet and saw he had posted this on ACLF.
“I think you have got me mixed up with somebody else, and other arguments.
So let me explain my views in another way.
In 2009 I wrote on this blog that we needed to spend money. Some people didn’t like it.
I wrote a piece 2 years ago where I compared the net spend on transfers. I did a very detailed analysis of the net transfer and wages spend of all the major clubs to see if we were over-achieving or under-achieving. I concluded that we were over-achieving, but not as well as Manchester United.
I do not believe that Wenger is the messiah.
I do not believe that Wenger will win us the PL or CL based on our expenditure and I never have done.
I do not believe that Wengerball prevails anymore in the PL. There are too many good teams preventing that from happening.
With regards to your set of beliefs about success, I’m assuming here a CL or PL win – I think you are completely deluded if you the think that Wenger should have delivered based on the level of expenditure, particularly in the transfer market, up to now. This is why I am not upset at Wenger not delivering – it doesn’t surprise me.
Yes, we could have won a domestic trophy like the Carling Cup or maybe an FA Cup.
Overall – do I feel that we have achieved par or slightly over-achieved – yes. We have consistently got 3rd or 4th and have made 1 final, 1 semi and 2 quarter finals of the CL. Some clubs would give their right arm for this level of progression. City have never made it beyond the last 16 of the CL.
So in terms of a change of argument, I do not believe that another manager would be able to over-achieve to bring us the CL. Not without significant transfer spend. If you believe that Wenger is holding us back because as Bill alludes, he won’t spend, then you’ve been reading Le Grove. He won’t spend, because up to now he hasn’t had the money. Yes, in the last 2 windows, we’ve had money, but you all seem to be convinced that this is evidence that he can’t or won’t do his job. btw he did sign Ozil. But this doesn’t seem to count.”
Sort of make me hanker after the debate there is when unbelievers are allowed in.
But no, its not for this site,
We need a safe haven.
LikeLike
Good post George and I understand what you are saying. People who choose to misunderstand your meaning are often the very ones who whilst claiming to be supporters are actually anti-supporters because they no longer recognise that which they fell in love with, in the modern Arsenal.
LikeLike
Evening.Very interesting post I must say.
I cant say I agree with this post, I can only guess its in some kind of relation to debate elsewhere. Saying that I cant say I disagree with it either, support is always conditional. For me it is conditional that there’s always a club for me to support, whether it be in the PL or in the Conference league it doesn’t matter, but thanks to Arsene and co. and the building of a new stadium and a financial model that other teams can only dream of, I see us being around for a long time.
On the other hand I’ve always been a sucker for those shiney silvery things. I’m fickle like that you see, I like bragging rights, I’ll be honest and conditional support for a manager also applies, If you understand what i mean?
10 years is an awful long time to not win anything if your a top manager and that is how I’ve always judged success of a top manager.
He needs to win the Fa cup doesn’t he? If he wants to stay on? And even then, some managers can be at a club too long.
We’ll see what happens, but in any case its been an interesting ride and I’m looking forward to the future, with or without Arsene, although I have no doubts he’s been the best manager of our history by far, the success he had in his first 10 years, Unmatched.
That doesn’t mean i’ll stop supporting when he’s gone though. I was here supporting before he arrived. It makes no sense to up and leave just because he has, no matter what direction we take, whether we get relegated or we go the route of Chelsea and City, It will always be my club whether I like it or not.
Regards.
D.Hills
LikeLike
Let’s get one fact straight:
We live in a world where our fans will always conveniently forget results like city losing at home to Wigan or Chelsea losing at Villa, but the same fans will always hold our team up to virtually impossible standards. Manure have won championships without ever beating a major rival. Yes our away form had been terrible at rival clubs but so far out home record this season has not been shabby.
It takes a very serious distortion of reality to say that Arsenal have been underperforming, the opposite is the truth.
LikeLike
Haven’t read all the comments yet as it’s taken me half the evening to translate Pete Tosh’s nonsense in his 1st post.
Back to reading the rest, ho hum
LikeLike
Fatboy Gonner,
Is that my old friend from Arseblog?
LikeLike
Bloody hell just deciphered one of his posts and just like buses another one appears
LikeLike
You’ve deciphered it Dups? What does it mean? Its beyond me.
LikeLike
I said I deciphered it George I never said it made any sense.
By the way my Arsenal supporting years began way back in the 70s (Hunter would not like those teams much but he forgets the shite grounds they played on). Money (not just Arsene ) has changed football beyond all recognition now because clubs have better pitches, training and medical facilities.
As for the idiots who want AW out I just tell them to look at Man U with Moyes. Did you know that their fans have payed for an airplane to fly a banner over old toilet saying moyes out. Makes our bin baggers look cheap & daft
LikeLike
Anicoll, I’m afraid you meaning did elude me in your comment. But I see you are going to the City game–have a great time and I hope you help the atmosphere!
I had planned to visit the UK at the end of April and start of May, but had to change those plans–Alas, no Games at the Emirates for me this season. But I do hope to go down to NYC for the Red Bulls-Arsenal exhibition in July, if I can get tickets.
LikeLike
George, I thought it was an interesting post and remember discussing the subject when that twitter exchange happened some time ago–I believe on ACLF? And I hoped to chat about the City game, but I haven’t been able to make heads or tails of the comments this evening.
Who knows if it will work–I’m grasping at straws and we aren’t in great shape, but I am hoping that if we can keep them from scoringv for a half, we might be able to build confidence and find a way in the second.
LikeLike
Long term reader, first time poster. As ever, a really great post. I am so grateful for this blog which I view as a solace from the increasingly depressing vitriol spouted about the club, the manager and players. I couldn’t agree more about wanting to keep this Arsenal which I think is truly about to embark on something really special. I just hope it is AW who still steers that course.
LikeLike
I spent a bit of time on Twitter yesterday afternoon and saw that this old chestnut had started to emerge. I added to it by simply saying that “the whole conversation depended on a proper understanding of the conditional tense.” And that I think is the issue: there are many different supporters, not just of different ages and backgrounds, but also of different intelligence or education. Some arguments are seemingly beyond the intellectual grasp of some fans and I suspect it has been ever thus. What is wonderful about the current era is the emergence of social media has given everyone the illusion that the game has been democratized – and the fact that it is only an illusion merely increases the frustration for those who see success in terms of a terrifyingly simple equation: money = success, but Wenger won’t spend, so the manager is actively working against the very thing that the fan wants. Therefore as night follows day: Wenger out!
And if that is the level of comprehension then you can see how for many the prospect that George describes of an Usmanov-type sinking money into a beacon of white and straight supremacy is actually exactly what they would most like. That they support my team has always been the case: the hooligans on the terrace have always been there, just as the Etonians in the cocktail lounge have been too. That they are bound together by love for The Arsenal is, as they say, part of life’s rich tapestry, and I try to find room in my heart for them all, however frustrated and at times downright irritated I become.
LikeLike
Since it’s so unlikely Arsenal will stop being Arsenal, I mean Wenger’s version of club and style, it’s an odd idea to think of not supporting Arsenal. And when he departs? He has achieved the “impossible”, rebuilt Arsenal around a philosophy of football, it won’t simply disappear, although it may change. As for results I can hardly comprehend what all the fuss is about. We draw after a big loss, it’s tradition, isn’t it. Cruel though.
Can’t wait for the next run of games.
LikeLike
Morning all.
At airport on my way to the Ems today.
Some of our fans really have bought into the media story that Chavs, Pool and City will win every single one of their remaining games.
Well that is not possible, is it?
Arsenal are still in the title race, albeit by the skin on our fingertips but so are we fighting a rearguard action for top 4 against the tinies and toffees. It’s very interesting.
If our fans can’t stay excited and enthusiastic then I don’t know what’s wrong with them, hopefully by the time of our FA cup semi final against Wigan we will have a bench full of refreshed midfielders back from their injuries. In the meantime Kallstorm looks good enough to help cover that gaping hole in front of our defence.
I’d rarely disagree with limestone but I think Sanogo is too raw yet, I’d rather play the Ox up front at no 10 beside Giroud and plodders down the left. Our big problem in the big games is being hustled off the ball in midfield with not enough cover at the back. Sanga and Gibbs need to stay in our own half a bit more, but that limits our own attacks. Wenger can see this too.
LikeLike
when I say to ARSENAL supporters who are doubting Arsene, ” I remember the real dark days 18 years without the title, finishing below the totts, dire football put today into perspective” they always say yeah but ARSENAL have moved on since then. Well who do they think has moved us on, who raised the bar,on a silverware, football style and as a major player on a world stage. The real hypocrites are those who are judging Arsene against himself, the “lost it brigade” if you like. Its one of the most illogical arguments I’ve ever heard and almost as mad as a rich party claiming to represent the poor. If you can lose your support for your Manager and board and most of the players when they post a top four position continually for 16 years, even with the oil rich clubs outspending you by billions and reduce your local rivals to also rans then how can you complain if someone doubts their commitment in any scenario. Once again their argument is illogical and really they should look at whether they support ARSENAL or an image of ARSENAL they have created in their heads that never really existed.
LikeLike
pic.twitter.com/hlmPkUqpca
LikeLike
LikeLike
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/34848 another good and relevant post on untold that I just wish the unfaithful would read
LikeLike
On my way in ten minutes – beautiful day – UTA
LikeLike
Well the Finchampstead Falcons beat Maidenhead Magpies 4-1 in the Berkshire (Under 9) league this morning and that has been an omen more often than not this season, so lets hope the day continues to pan out so positively.
LikeLike
we’re at the freakin top four of the freakin table for freaksake aaaaahhh rgh in the semi final of the fa cup. playing without our best players, does anyone remember ramseys errant passes after recovering from injury so alex its looking similar to me rushing his touch sometimes.
LikeLike
A beautiful day on North London, a great day to go and watch the Arsenal.
LikeLike
I have to say my footballs shrunk with envy when I saw the Moyes Out banner laid out next to an aeroplane.
Sure beats an A4 print and some bin bags. These Groaners, they need to spend some farking moolah! What have they been doing all this time? Someone needs to pull their bleedin’ finger out.
LikeLike
I remember that post by Muppet, two years ago, a superb bit of work it is too. The fact that I can still remember a post from that far back is a kind of tribute in itself. Still valid today, I’d say, albeit in understandable need of updating.
Taking my life in my hands and heading for The George where no doubt I’ll need to use Georgaki as some kind of human shield as Hunter tries to stab me to death for being English.
My main fears for today centre less on the opposition and more on our own fans. A repeat of the Aston Villa performance would be about as torrid as it’s poosible to get from the padded seats …
Right, where’s that stab-proof vest.
Wish me luck.
LikeLike
“5 negroes”! So in the name of “debate” we should allow covert racist language on PA? Just hoping this is a one day revelation George.
When it comes to this debate about support I love George’s metaphor of the difference between a marriage and a family. But it seems even this basic concept is hard for many to follow. Pearls wasted on swines.
LikeLike
Good luck, Andrew et. al. !! Hope the Hone crowd takes up a defiant spirit rather than crumbling into petulance–we need a strong performance from everyone: players, manager, supporters. Show the strength of the club!
DC, I know it is bold, but it seems to fit into the tactical approach I hope we can execute–sitting back and hitting on the counter. I don’t think AW will go for it but he did start Sanogo v. Liverpool and v. Bayern. Both were among our better performances against very strong teams.
LikeLike
Shotta – I don’t think for a moment George intends to debate racism but it IS typical of the kind of post we don’t let through ordinarily. Aside from the obviously abhorrent racism, it’s the bizarre logic that dismays and depresses as much as anything.
It’s great to have a safe and civilised haven here but let’s not kid ourselves that there are not some very primitive followers out there.
*reaches for helmet, heads to The George*
LikeLike
Cheers LimestoneG – sorry you can’t make it over this season!
LikeLike
Hello Limey
Remember te benchmark pre-season game against City in Finland (I think).
That was the counter-attacking plan C (or was it E? Ssshhhhush. Remember Wenger does not do tactics according to the disingenuous ones) template for this season: Ramsey ending the sweepstake for POTS nominees in that game alone, bouncing Fernandinhio and Toure off the ball, & Chambo and Walcott finished them off. Obviously their manager and squad are more familiar now but the difference will be in personal available. Hard to kill teams that can pass on the counter with just Chambo, need at least two Speedsters plus or minus an Ozil to play that game well, as they did then and at times during the season, in my humble and completely ignorant opinion. Have to go so I can’t reply, good luck for the game!
LikeLike
Shotta, I only let that post through because of it ridiculousness. No one debated with him. As I said, it left be lost for words.
LikeLike
Me too, Andrew… Hopefully next season!
Nice thoughts, Fins–enjoy the match!
My feelings of foreboding g have disappeared and I am just excited to see Arsenal play. I am sure we’ll recover some and play with proper pride, win or lose.
LikeLike
Well I’m here
LikeLike
Where? Im outside
LikeLike
Right hand side front door blue sweater handbag
LikeLike
@anicoll5 what are u doing with a handbag? LOL
LikeLike
how come the manager of success fail to win at lowly palace?
LikeLike
We met
We drank
We support
LikeLike
All to play for. Chelsea loss to Palace means if we win today against City we are in the hunt and have a chance. Come on Arsenal!
LikeLike
Oops. It’s wide open once again.
Mourinho moaning about time wasting is rich. You got rid of one of your best players, you idiot, and now you don’t have any creativity. Of course you’re going to struggle against teams that park the bus.
LikeLike
Santi is playing in the hole.
LikeLike
10 minutes to kick-off.
Believe!
Bloody 4.30am kick-off in Sydney but at least its Sunday hehe
LikeLike
HonestlynPalace didn’t really park the bus. They sat deep but played forward aggressively and with pace, showed some good midfield possession at times also.
LikeLike
Not a bad half from us. Unlucky somewhat for the goal though our eft was open wide the first 20 mins. Better from us after that but we really haven’t created much that really threatened. Need to take shots; just one! But good platform to build on and even if we lose, we can gain confidence from this sort of performance.
LikeLike