I was asked a simple and fair question on twitter some time ago by Andy Wood @yorkshiregunner .
“Tell me George, will you still support Arsenal when Arsene leaves?”
(As people continue to misquote my reply here again is the blog I wrote about it)
Now I understand that it was a snide question, a loaded question, designed to suggest that Arsene was more important to me than the club. I knew that before I answered with this:
Not for 100% sure. It would be hard to think I won’t. But I could stop. It’s like a marriage for me, not a family. If you follow?”
This of course was immediately interpreted to mean: “I will stop supporting if Arsene leaves.” Just as I had anticipated!
People then started screaming that one’s support for the club should be unconditional. “ARSENAL TILL I DIE!!”
And all the other soundbites people use.
Then they saw fit to state the obvious with gems like:
“No one is bigger than the club.”
No shit Sherlock, I had missed that.
As the Twitter exchange continued, I tried to explain that I could not guarantee always supporting the club, because if it changed into something different to that I was in love with, it would no longer be my club.
This concept seemed beyond the comprehension of a few, and some claimed that NOTHING could make them withdraw their support. Ever.
There’s an irony here, in case you hadn’t already spotted it …
So I came up with the most outrageous scenario I could think of, just to test their ‘position’ and asked if they would still support the club if the following occurred:
The club is bought by the English Defence League and all our players are sold, only white heterosexuals are allowed to play for the club. Do you still support?
Almost every right thinking person would say:
“No, it’s a stupid scenario, but no.”
My point being that ALL support is conditional. It’s just the conditions that are required to be met are different, and they vary from person to person.
What some people fail to understand is that “the club” means different things to different people.
My definition of “the club” includes the playing style, its class, history and integrity. The manager, board and players are a large part of that. The whole ethos of the club is what I regard “the club” to be.
Someone told me that “the club” to him was the badge, and that is what he supported. He didn’t mention whether the badge in question was cotton or man-made, so I reserved my judgement on him.
But, nonetheless, for him, the definition of the club was different.
My main point in all of this is that regardless of your personal definition of what the club – or anything you have fallen in love with – is, if that thing you fell in love with, changes to the degree where they or it becomes something or someone you would never have originally fallen for, then it is ENTIRELY possible to fall back out of love.
And this patently includes, even, one’s own chosen football club.
Now, if you are happy to support a club, fuelled by petro-dollars, managed by a hoof-ball specialist or filled with players like Barton, Suarez, Terry, Savage, Cole and Rooney – then great. But I would find it hard to continue that support, ultimately, even if that club was my beloved Arsenal.
It would be a gradual deterioration of the relationship between me and the club, but given the perfect (and frankly unlikely) storm, I COULD stop supporting.
There has been a lot of “I want my Arsenal back” going around in recent times.
Well, I personally want to keep THIS one.
These people that claim to ‘want their Arsenal back’ are effectively saying this current Arsenal is not “their” club.
Effectively, they’ve withdrawn their support already.
This is evidenced by their relentless attacks on the club and it’s staff – on Twitter, in blogs, on radio phone-ins etc. Those individuals who have given up their season ticket have clearly withdrawn their support. They are, as a result, no longer proper pucka Gooners are they?
The anger evident in their remarks is quite possibly driven by the pain they are feeling from losing their love for the club.
Well, maybe they ARE still Gooners.But they have simply come to a point where their support has been withdrawn. Do they watch on TV instead? Or has that been given up too? Have they stopped reading the papers? Do they no longer talk about Arsenal?
If they are still Gooners, it’s clear that bit-by-bit they are losing – or have lost – their love for the club as the conditions that led them to support in the first place are no longer seemingly evident.
For THEM, at least.
Now people can say that they are better fans than me because they have supported longer, spent more money, attended more games, live in the area of the ground or because nothing could stop them supporting. I won’t argue.
I certainly won’t care what they think either.Because they can claim all day long that they are the ‘real’ supporters of the club. But the reality, actually, is that they are drifting away from the club with every attack they launch.
***
Finally someone said:
“Morals in football are bollocks.”
To which I replied:
“Morals are only ever bollocks to those without them.”
I however ,am the last person to judge people on their morals.That does not mean they are any less important.
Positively Arsenal 
Fan’s are just looking for an out let,
To vent their anger.
Especially, after being teased with a real opportunity of winning the league,
Which turned out to be a true cock tease,
to say the least.
Love is love and a fan is a fan,
Though there are many different grades.
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it will be hard for me to stop supporting arsenal. but for whatever reason, couples who once merried ’till death do us part’ sometimes divorce for whatever reason as well. with the present board still in place i really dont foresee such situation even if arsene leaves.
the only reason that can make me reconsider my support is if arsene is unceremonously sacked from the club as some idiots are demanding. the truth is i didnt know arsenal without wenger as i started supporting after he became the manager. but if they sack him and replace him with even henry and bergkamp together, i may still be forced to withdraw my support. but i’m sure the present board wont do such a thing.
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I wish somebody would ask me the same question. My answer would be sweet and short: voetsek, the ‘v’ pronounced as an ‘f’ which is an Afrikaans word which means ‘fuck off’
Imagine being asked what you like more between onion and tomato in a salsa dish! Stupid and pedantic! There are so many Steward Robson’s in England, characters straight out of Jerry Springer show.
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Then it means even if wenger quits for united ul support united?coz he will take what u want there..i supported arsenal coz we conqured with gd footbal.bt nw we play wel without any threat to our opponents.instead right nw u shld be a bayan fan they are parfecting what arsenal are doing,arsenal are nolonger the beauty bt stil i lv them..did u support knwing that 1 day ul stop?coz wenger is nt immortal to live 4ever!
I lv arsenal team nt individuals,i lv it bcoz it was the 1st club to watch(90mins) taking a cup after understanding what ftbal fotbal is..and i hate those who pul us back from what i saw on 1st day(trophy),especialy those who do it intentionaly(wenger)bt am also an understanding sportsman,i can understand when we av failed bt done our best and i mean our best as board..in hard times i stil stand with arsenal wisely!i mean wisely coz even enemies at that moment are happy and stand with us,every team wil chuz to face wenger than gadiola,why?coz he is easy to beat than gady..xo itr like they r supporting wenger!so what wil b the defrence btwn us?if u want to knw ur are gd in ftbal is when ur oponent is genuinly againist(hate) ur team(nt individual)..even ur parents go againist u(ur sin) when u do wrong and it doesnt mean they hate u..if they hate u they wil suport u blhndly like u(writer)hw ur are supporting arsenal,coz even with wenger our ftbal has changed(giroud is nt able to play that gd ftbal no control we sometime win ugly,we r beaten in possesion by most big teams who play ugly..)
Be a die hard fan of arsenal bt a wise1.
If wenger dont want to improve i wount stop critisizing him and demanding for his head!
There r other ambitious wengers out there eg klop/gadiola
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Well I support Arsenal unconditionally.
As long as Wenger or his spirit is within the club.
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Sir, you appear not to understand just how little tolerance the average football supporter has for logic.
I like it, though. Original stuff which also manages to chime with my way of thinking. But, unlike me, you seem able to keep the strain and frustration out of your thinking. Well done.
Not a million miles from my pointing out to someone earlier that his stance- that winning is all that matters, the glory of it lasting forever, and in five or ten years time no one even remembers how a title is won, only the name of the winners- sounded suspiciously like he was saying that supporters of whoever wins title this year will be entitled to feel good about it for at least ten years…which wouldn’t exactly sit well with his insistence that Arsenal fans are pathetic and should be miserable ( on account of not winning anything of late)
Unsurprisingly, he couldn’t see any inconsistency. Logically, such arguments (as his) actually mean you could dispense with all of football , and simply name whoever stumps up the biggest cheque as champions. Would free up a lot of time for us all to go read books and stuff! But I personally quite like the game.
Meanwhile, it’s incredibly tense for me. Will haunt me for life if Wenger’s time doesn’t end well.
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“As long as Wenger or his spirit is within the club.”
Then that is your condition.
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George
As someone smarter than me once
said, Arsene is not bigger than Arsenal but Arsenal is bigger because of Arsene.
I will stick with him till the end, even if it is to our Waterloo or Appotomatox.
It is the very least I owo him for17 years of making Arsenal the only relevant football club in the British Isles.
FA cup semi and still 6 points behind the antichrist with 7 games to go. And the chavs have to go to Anfield. I am not giving up on this team.
It ain’t over until Susan Boule says so.
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I let Peter Tosh trough , because we deserve a laugh.
Thats what we are dealing with. Fuck my old boots !
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I have seen 4 managers at Arsenal in my conscious memory.
The only thing that would truly disgust me us someone like alisher usmanov in control.
That and some fucking retarded fans trying to chase Wenger out.
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I guess a better question is can support wax, wane, evolve or change shape? The club may mean different things to people but so does supporting. Is there just the one true way?
A more appropriate question is could you support another club instead of Arsenal? That’s a good question!
I couldn’t. Not in the same way. If AW goes to PSG, I won’t transfer my sense if identification and solidarity, my support as I see it, to PSG over Arsenal. I’ll still love and admire him for what he has meant to me and the club I support, and I might even wish him well elsewhere. But I can’t see supporting a different club, like saybSwansea, even though they represent many of the values I associate currently with Arsenal and some I wish we’re more incorporated into our club.
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Baffling
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Good thoughtful post, George. I understand what you are saying. I think there are some other dimensions to consider, as well, of course, as expressed above.
No one wants to talk City much in the Arsenal blogosphere. But that is the pressing issue and everyone, including the fans, really needs to be up for it, give our best.
I’d start Sanogo, sit deep, keep it very tight, and hope to hit on the counter. I’d be happy with a steely draw and a confidence boosting performance. Use his pace and fresh legs–they won’t expect it and Giroud looks dead on his feet.
The task is to gain confidence and avoid pressure jitters in the cup and away to Everton. If we succeed there we can come out of this with some positive momentum and be set up to strengthen this summer. My hope is we keep Bac and Verm for continuity and just go for replacements to Fabianski, a physical CM and a top striker
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What is Andrew ?
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Pan dan dick George,
You are indeed a contradicting wanker!
For not showing my comment.
And if you can set the example of using words like shit & bollocks in your post,
But find the word “cock teaser”offensive,
Then you can truly go fuck yourself, you hypocritical wanker!
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“My hope is we keep Bac and Verm for continuity and just go for replacements to Fabianski, a physical CM and a top striker”.
Thats my hope too LG
I fear the worst tomorrow. But your tactics might not be a bad idea.
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Nobody wants to talk about Citeh on the Arsenal boglosoupdigitoworld
You may well be right there Limey
To be fair the internet experts might struggle with the usual statistical player v player psycho v psycho prejudice v prejudice bollox
A billion words from all these wankers – me included – are not worth Jack
Dyasee Limey ?
Get on support – don’t support – who gives a fuck ?
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Fatboy, wanker I might be, hypocrite I’m not.
People are free to use any language they like . Once admittance is gained.
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I see you have a new fan George !
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Any PL team that can be humiliated by a Chamionship side like Wigan, at home, I suspect is rather less than invincible – any takers ?
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Very interesting, thought provoking and brave post PG.
Based on my experience I would say that I started out as an Arsenal fan because they were my local team. Didn’t really enjoy watching them much but I enjoyed the camaraderie on Saturday afternoon. Tribal reasons really. But Arsene took my support to such a high level it can only be described as love. I cannot wait to watch the Arsenal because I expect great entertainment, great football. When that day arrives I will still be Arsenal. I hope his successor continues to provide the same quality of entertainment, even if the style might not be the same. As was implied above, it will be one hell of an act to follow because the Arsenal of today is because of Arsene.
I totally understand and agree that there are limits and conditions to one’s support. Comments like ‘Arsenal till I die’ taken at face value almost make no sense to me. It’s a fucking sport, a pass time for fuck’s sake (incidently should there be an apostrophy in fuck’s sake?)
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Enjoyable post and quite thought provoking. Ive been a supporter since 1983 and I used to think that my support would be tested if The Arsenal ever fielded more than 5 negroes in the same side. However, I remember travelling up to Leeds about 10 years ago and we had 9 of them playing and it then dawned on me that I would follow this club under any circumstances. That being said, so long as we could maintain a truly competitive side then I would much prefer to be run by those nasty people from the EDL that you mention. I would be appalled if Arsene was ever driven out by a noisy minority of halfwits or if the board caved in to them and sacked him because of it. But my support of the club would still go on. Anyway, cheers for an enjoyable read.
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Hey fatboy
Please don’t moon and use bad language, some of us are of a sensitive disposition….
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I’m lost for words. Perhaps for the first time ever.
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Still lost.
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PG
The demographic on here has changed somewhat tonight……
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This cunt and his five negroes caught my attention tbf.
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“The Arsenal ever fielded more than 5 negroes in the same side”
……………………………… nope, still lost.
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Anicoll
I hope that I will recognise you tomorrow. I’ll have the letters GP on my forehead….
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I just thought I would let you see what I have to put up with every day.
Normal service will resume tomorrow.
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Only for tonight then…..
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My more general point was in respect on tomorrow’s game being much more about football, about each and every single player in red achieves or fails at, compared to the light blue opposition
As I have said and bored on elsewhere they are the best football team in the PL currently
Let’s beat them
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Yes, why do you like the challenge?
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Thanks pedantic(claimed to new!)they want to gv example with woman-united..infact they shld lk it this way Moyes left everton just to make them better(martinez)there is only champion in every competition…in wenger succesful days there were no much serious enemies..pple here are fans of balancing books.why did henry live us despite the lv he had for Arsenal why did he rank gadiola high than anyone..am very sure he could av done wonders in those days which had no great competition.Hw is he great no UCL!
I respect his step bt he is nw destroying it..he is nolonger giving beautil ftbal as they claim!hw come morinho who hate possesion can beat us in that very thing..our culture has shifted to balancing of bks.i lv arsenal and i want them to b under that wenger who is nolonger there bt his spirit exist in other bodies(klop/gadiola)the only mistake arsenal whl do ir to let a coach apoint a succesor(man-u)
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Well, what I just read was a load of old tosh……
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The reasons people have for supporting Arsenal are undoubtedly the cause of the big difference of opinions expressed in the Arsenal blogs. The reason I support Arsenal is that my family always have, originally from Islington there was only one team. It wasn’t a conscious choice based on philosophy, ownership or anything like that. I’ve watched bad Arsenal sides and great ones and I’ve moaned about all of them. One more player and we’d be world beaters, etc, etc. I hated losing to Swindon and Leeds, I loved winning the Fairs Cup and the double. Under Arsene we played the best football I’ve ever seen. I wished that my father, who’d spent year after year standing on the terraces watching fairly average Arsenal sides, had had the chance to see that team play. So I don’t really care who the players are, who the manager is, or what the financial or managerial philosophy is behind the club. I just want to watch an Arsenal team play competitive football and challenge for the occasional trophy. That’s
all really. I’m not sure we’re doing that at the moment. But anyone who wants to dismiss McNab, Armstrong, Graham and Radford as Neanderthals who played hoofball can simply fuck off as far as I’m concerned.
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Whats your problem Anicoll and how am I cunt?
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dfb, So you were born into it. See the original tweet that started it all.
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Have the lunatics taken over the asylum?
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Lol, I miss all this.
For one day only.
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Roll up, roll up for night only….tonight’s special….
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George, I dont even know what he/she was trying to say! Can you help?
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ouch! The battle n”strife just wacked my head with a saucepan……
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Right then….fuck off….oh my fuckin head hurts….you cunts…fuck off….
What a bunch of cunts…..wankers, fuckin cunts…..bastards….fuckin Wengers a Phrench cunt …..fuckin 9 fuckin years no fuckin trophy….the Phrench cunt….
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Don’t really do tweets George. Far too old for that.
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Where the fuck is Hunter when you need him? Fuck me…..
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dfb. Its at the start of the article.
” Not for 100% sure. It would be hard to think I won’t. But I could stop. It’s like a marriage for me, not a family. If you follow?”
So what I am saying is that for you it would be family. And for me a marriage,
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dfb is on the ball
It is better to support than to arrive
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Fuck me even the under 21s are getting red cards….what the fuck…..having to play for 2/3 of the game a man down is fuckin shameful…..are they takin a fuckin leaf out of the first τεαμ’σ βοοκ φθψκ με υοθ ψθντς
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I’m paying attention to Bear Grylls because who knows I might one day need to kill and eat a skunk
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