A guest post from Arse or Brain (@arse_or_brain)
The answer to this question can be different not only in people’s opinion but also the context in which you ask it. After a very quiet stadium against Crystal Palace I had a very heated discussion with a friend I have been following Arsenal with around the country and abroad over the last 30 years. You would imagine after such time our views would align, much like women’s periods. However, on the subject of whether the fans should inspire the team – or the team should inspire the fans – we are poles apart.
While this issue will never be black and white, each are incumbent upon each other to inspire in certain situations and to a greater or lesser extent depending on what the occasion demands, I feel the greater responsibility should always be on the supporter to do all they can to lift whatever performance they are watching.
Apart from the embarrassment of the small amount of away fans out-singing the rest of the stadium every home game, I feel players should ride on a wave of noise towards the 100% performance to which we all aspire.
It is why home games used to have such an advantage. It is why away teams are told – regardless of tactics – silencing the home fans is first on the list. It is why teams like to attack their loudest end in the second half and it is why many goals are scored in the final minutes when the crowd are “sucking the ball in to the net.”
Will paying players more money increase their performance?
Will guilting them into a performance by booing them work, or will staying quiet, or grumbling, lift their game?
No, actually roaring them on is the most effective way to make them fly.
I have often heard the argument the players should give the crowd something to cheer and in some circumstances I agree. However when a stadium is still from the start of the game, playing at 100% must be more difficult. I would also ask why, with all the modern media around, someone would want to spend money and time not supporting the team? Do you sit mute and wait for something magical to happen or do you sing your heart out to try and inspire that magic?
The problem has been acknowledged by some fan groups with both RedAction and A.I.S.A talking to the club and making suggestions to improve atmosphere. The teen for a tenner section is normally very vocal and the singing section at least produces songs from one part of the ground. These initiatives on their own are not nearly enough and at the moment we have a top class stadium, a top class team but the *HOME fans are bottom of a very poor league.
*The emphasis is on home because our away fans are second to none.
Positively Arsenal 
I will get some stick on twitter for this
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Your dead right apart from the red section and the wonderful Palace fans you could hear a pin drop, and “We ARE TOP of the league”. Don’t know what fans want the west stand is like a morgue
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At the stadium it’s always the fans duty to lift the team and NEVER turn against them!
I belive, I’m sorry to say, that many good players have been reduced to poor players because of the fans abuse at stadiums and/or in the media. Not only Arsenal fans of course but just look at Gervinho, he’s doing alright now at Roma isn’t he!?
I’m old enough to remember abuse at Henry, Gilberto, Flamini, Ramsey and several others….
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It’s a symbiotic relationship. Both parties need to give 100% for ultimate success.
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The club comes first. Clubs have multiple stakeholders to be able to function (people with a stake in the outcome). Staff, management, contracted employees (players), club members, some affiliates, season ticket holders, supporters (buying tickets and attending matches, home and away), fans at home (London/UK), fans abroad, and shareholders. Of these players, management, shareholders and match attendees are senior stakeholders that directly influence outcomes. Of these, the players and management are doing a fine job to get us top, the shareholders (owners) appear to be stable, but season ticket holders/match attendees (not individually, as a whole group, specifically at home, according by reports) are the ONLY ones not contributing to full success, except by buying tickets (ie as consumers).
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Not sure what the answer is,I do think away fans always make much more noise than the home fans in whatever PL ground you go to,also the atmosphere at The Grove have has been great on a few occasions this season-Pullis football certainly didn’t help on Sunday that’s for sure,I’d sing and bang a drum for 90 minutes if I had to watch that shit every week.
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I’ve noticed that for any game where there is an influx of fans who are in all likelihood NOT season ticket holders (ie, for FA and League Cup games), the atmosphere is noticeably livelier.
This is the point which goes to the heart of the idea of allowing standing areas behind the goals with at least some tickets available on a match day.
When you have an influx of those who really appreciate being there then there can only be one result.
Is it Bayern who now write to season-ticket holders who miss a certain number of games to warn them they may lose their ticket? Scanning around the Emirates at ALL games there are always significant numbers of seats empty these days. Sure, the seats are paid for but the ST holder has failed to either turn up or pass his/her ticket on to someone.
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” noone bigger than the cl;ub? ” …does that include fans and bloggers ?
🙂
merry christmas !
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Scanning around the Emirates at ALL games there are always significant numbers of seats empty these days.
haha loosers…..they have the priviledge to see a wenger team play football and they….decline…ahahahahhahahaha
big club…huge !!!!
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boom
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shit..that was supposed to be a tank …..
sorry….
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Excellent post A_B.
something or a combination of something’s must be done. Trail and error. Keep ideas that work and chuck the ideas that don’t. I guarantee an extra 10 points every year if not more when the crowd start doing their damn job. Just keep the vavazu horn or any kind of horn away from stadium. Natural noise and singing added the drums for extra effect is all that is needed. & oh the CANNONS. the opposition fans and players will poop themselves at the sight and sound of them howitzers. Just make sure you give the old folks heads up or we might start losing a few o those due to the tickers malfunction.
C O Y G
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Holy Moses Hunter. That looks like some communiqué from an alien life force from deep space. Talk about speaking in thongs.
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I meant tongues. Damn auto correct
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if you read it upside down it reveals the code to beat the roulette
science…
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I allready have the code to beat the roulette table consistently. Its the poker table I need to stay the hell away from.
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Interesting issue – does banging a big drum and having two dozen geezers making a noise irrespective what is or isn’t taking place on the pitch equal good support ?
Or even support ?
Or just a boys day out ?
The drums the drums they make me deaf
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COLL
drums are tribal. The original. Drums are allowed. That is if I was in charge. 😉
That vavazozo is just irritating.
The noise from the fans should be strong and consistent, just like you want the team efforts to be. Specialy during the positive patches. During negative patches there shouldn’t be any booing or moaning . In short try to build up you team not tear it down.
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Thanks A_or_B
I sneakily admire Arsenal fan’s level of grumpy ‘not good enough’ attitude at times.
It means that when we are passionate and enthusiastic behind the team it is 100% genuine, but as for BSM-AST those quislings can feck right off.
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I do know that when Palace and their noisy drummer played at Stamford Bridge,Juan Mata whilst sitting on the bench back then leant over to Torres and said ‘Can you hear the drums Fernando?….’
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Football league lobbying government for safe standings.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/championship/10623219/Football-League-to-lobby-Government-in-major-move-for-safe-standing-areas.html
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Nice link. Thanks for that article. Looks like some folks have allready started an action on this matter. Curious that only club opposed to it is ,POOL.
memories still fresh and raw.
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Sitting or standing makes no difference. Fans do. Here in Ha-ha-Harare, the decrepit old 20,000 Rufaro Stadium (Dynamos) in Mbare is a sitting only stadium, it’s too hot to stand anyway for 2 hours; it becomes a bubbling, seething, heaving cauldron of laughter and madness with 20,000 folks holding a heated conversation with everyone else in earshot, which at the decibels people talk at, is all 20,000 others. The goals get the roar, but it’s the moves (and mistakes) that get the crowd going.
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German stadiums are seating it seems from the telly. I don’t see Dortmund fans whispering sweet nothings to each other. That said, like Double Canister I also admire grumpy Arsenal fans muttering “what the f… was that” (when the question is called for). Highbury library?
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Thing is, I imagine even half-wit Wenger-hating Arsenal fans twittering to each other that “Jenks is championship standard at best” deeply know in their secret places that Arsenal plays the most attractively determined football in the EPL, and would be shocked to see anything but, for too long. They’ve got so used to it without realizing.
On the other hand I have no idea what I’m talking about.
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I am all for noise Goonerkam, what I have got the hump about is one away fan with his drum making most of it and trying to kill off other fans making any noise, which is what was happening on Sunday in spite of my and many other hardy souls in the Clock End’s best vocal efforts.
If the away fan has a drum, I want a drum, in fact I want ten drums if he has one drum, also 50 vuvuzelas, and the Dagenham Girl Pipers. THEN we shall see who is making the noise.
I will not accept a drum gap in the stadium
I have reached Def Con 1
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I detest vuvuzelas, they should be banned. Now kudu horns, that’s another matter.
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Anicol is dead right; the opposition drum is both a defensive rabble rouser in favour of the visitors AND an offensive ‘spoiler’ of the vocal response of the fans of the home side.
‘Musical’ instruments of any kind are bad news and I’m always amazed they are allowed in. Try taking in and using a half decent camera and see where that gets you; on the other hand the band of the Coldstream Guards and all their noisy paraphenalia would be welcome in with open arms, regardless of who they were batting for.
Interesting article about Ferguson’s shameful bullying of the referees during his rein of intimidation – and the even more shameful failure of the footballing authorities to address it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2553037/I-know-3-1-call-Former-ref-Gallagher-lifts-lid-Fergies-influence-referees.html
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That Sheffield Wednesday brass band that follow England around.
Oh dear, oh dear oh dear.
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Dortmund fan ‘cheerleaders’ using megaphones to gee up the home crowd is cheating as far as I’m concerned.
It’s also a bit too much Nurenburg Rally style for comfort.
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You’re welcome goonerkam. Personally I like to sit unless there’s a bed around.
Ooh I love Ray Parlour, one of my favourites. And take it from a legend you wengerbashers, the manager didn’t have money to spend.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2552973/The-Footballers-Football-Column-Ray-Parlour-Its-scapegoat-Wengers-fault-hes-no-money.html
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So three defenders will leave manure for free this summer with needs in other areas. This will be a very costly summer for them. Not to mention the rebuilding process. They will again find it hard to compete in the league next season.
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That fixture list. Oh my, it’s starting to sink in now. I’m so excited. And nervous. Every game a final you say. Not sure how to handle this. Wrong time to quit smoking. Extra underwears. Ambulance.
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(0( ANICOLL5
nice try my good man. There will be not even one vuvuzala and no girles with pipes for you. But we will try to requisition a few quality drums for you and you friends. Remember, times are still pretty tight financially speaking. We will get them only if they will improve what we have right now..
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APROPOS
” its the wrong time to quit smoking ”
You are not kidding mate. Wrong time to quit alcohol and in case of DEXTER & HUNTER 13 a few other unmentionables to add to the list.
GEORGE @ 409
don’t worry about Twitter mate. I think their days are numbered and a shut down eminent after their financial numbers came out this week. Couldn’t have happened to a better platform and so much healthier for emotional well being , specialy you. I pray that day comes quickly for your sakes at least.
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I’m in favour of …ulp … musical instruments, just not brass bands in snappy happy cheerleader brass band uniforms playing oom pah swish bang. The second best thing about Caribbean cricket used to be steel drums in Kingston as the sound track to yet another a thrashing of yet another brave English touring side ducking and weaving to chin music provided by the big guys. I didn’t know Dortmund had cheerleaders but I s’pose it figures, how else? If I had my way, which I should but I won’t, Emirates would be listening to Luck Street Blues playing its renditions of Aretha “soul sister” classics ….R-E-S-P-E-C-T … alongside funk-jazz. Ah, well, dream on …
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Great post and comments, again!
Standing/seating isn’t a big deal but my instinct is that it is one of the better solutions for providing cheaper tickets for teenagers or younger groups, which would be nice going forwards.
Drums aren’t needed, but I have enjoyed the cheerleading going on between the different areas in the new Arsenal stadium after the return of some favourite old songs this season. People in the ‘East Stand’ rising and singing in response to requests from some gentlemen in the ‘North Bank’, it’s good to see or be a part of. Definitely at times this season the atmosphere has been much much better. Good times.
When those who struggle to admit that they now hate the club march or protest or flood the internet with bile it does have an impact: The recent Palace game, Villa, Swansea last year, the impact in the stands and on the pitch could be seen.
The biggest problem for me are the idiots at the ground who expect to be “entertained”. You know the type, those that rent out their season ticket in a stadium that was only built because Wenger’s performances convinced the banks to lend the club the Wonga (see link below*) because ‘they hate Vengaaar’.
I remember a cagey and crafty 1-0 victory against Benitez’s Liverpool wasn’t good enough for such ginormous football brains. People complaining after beautiful and hard worked late winner against one of the top managers, must be the same crew who wonder what it is that Özil does on the pitch, I’ll never know why they don’t watch the game and only pay attention to the score (my theory is that the tw*ts recommend players like Samba and Melo because they watch the Arsenal games through the prisim of their own arses, which would make it hard to appreciate a player like Rosicknote, which is why they would call for such a Great player to be sold. The tw*ts.)
Classic cheesy video on the stadium build.
*In 2003 one of the banks funding the scheme pulled out. No doubt about it, the performances on the pitch and filling up Wembley a few years earlier is what convinced the lenders to re-open their wallets by 2004.
That the stadium was finally delivered as a very basic fit out, and left that way for years, was a strong indication of the budgetary restrictions upon the club at that time. Long term observers of the club, those who write blogs every day *coughs* have no excuse for not knowing that the club was skint for a long while there because the evidence was right there in front of them during every home game. When Not Over the Hill tells us that the Swiss Ramble casually missed out an easy £30M from the fit out costs for the residential developments on Drayton Park this tells us all we need to know about the accuracy of the guesswork involved (he’s imagining that the club/developer sold those properties without any heating, plumbing etc…).
Please note, the pitch requirements for the new Arsenal Stadium were written into the main contract! After all, it is a football stadium, the home of a football club.
Compare with Wembley, where the pitch was installed as an afterthought following another late night binge celebrating another (deliberate) over-run. A shambles. The contrast between the FA and AFC is reflected in how they managed or mis-managed their contracts, in their choice of contractor. One of these organisations is fit for purpose, the other is not. It’s the FA football fans look to in order to support standing/cheaper/affordable tickets, ownership models, the declining investment in grass roots football etc.
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Last three games against Liverpool:
1-2 to the Arsenal
2-2 at the Arsenal
2-0 to the Arsenal
Score two goals, restrict Liverpool to a maximum of one, and Arsenal could win the game tomorrow. I should be a manager.
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Great comments, Fins.
I’m now convinced the whole standing in stadium, pricing, accessibility and questions of atmosphere are all linked for the reasons well covered on here at PA this week.
What tricky subjects shall we tackle next week?
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Thanks for the great articles AA
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Remembering the aggro that some received for daring to suggest that Pato was a poor and ill informed suggestion from the spend any farking money brigade I thought this interesting:
From the bbc
“Sao Paulo fans are protesting against the team’s decision to acquire striker Alexandre Pato in a trade with Brazilian rival Corinthians…One of the banners read, “We don’t want Pato here.” Pato, yet to arrive at his new club, was one of the players threatened by Corinthians fans who invaded the team’s training centre last weekend.
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And they have a lot of trouble with drums in Brazil I bet Fins (banned smiley)
Yes Andrew, next week ? Tricky to say at the mo
Anything but the three points on Saturday and the thrashing to within an inch of their collective lives of the Mancs and the agenda will create itself ! Sandbags shovelled, barbed wire twined, machine guns cocked to drive back the black scarfed host
If results go our way words will not be required, and we can engage in a week of collective pppppppppuuuuuuuurrrrrrring
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sorry I forgot to put this link in the post. http://www.fsf.org.uk/ This is the football supporters federation who campaign on many issues such as safe standing.
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for anyone thinking they might have dts from the withdrawal of twitter a little comfort. % of new users were down and just like some of our panic stricken fans the market reacted. However advertisers and advert revenue was up and so it will continue to grow. It its a bit like reacting to what someone has reported Arsene said instead of his actual words, you know the thing.
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Apropos, Manure is in good hands with Phil Jones and Chris Smalling. Never mind that they were part of a defence which was torn apart in the U-21 Euros last summer, those two make Koscielny and Mertesacker look like Cheech and Chong.
I quit smoking last August right before the 2012 elections and the beginning of last season. I think you’ll be alright.
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“Remembering the aggro that some received for daring to suggest that Pato was a poor and ill informed suggestion from the spend any farking money brigade I thought this interesting:
From the bbc
“Sao Paulo fans are protesting against the team’s decision to acquire striker Alexandre Pato in a trade with Brazilian rival Corinthians…One of the banners read, “We don’t want Pato here.” Pato, yet to arrive at his new club, was one of the players threatened by Corinthians fans who invaded the team’s training centre last weekend.”
I remember. I also remember them calling Theo shit in comparison to Pato.
It’s funny how you mention this, the deadwood and Melo/Samba discussions we had back then. I remember telling those tools how Manure were going to have massive problems at the back once Ferdinand and Vidic stopped being useful. I was maybe a year too premature, but here we are. We have arguably the best centre back pairing in Europe and it’s made up of players the congnoscenti thought weren’t good enough to wear the shirt. Funny how the much maligned Koscielny has blossomed into such a magnificent defender. It’s as if, wait for it, Arsene knows.
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I quit smoking last August right before the 2012 elections and the beginning of last season. I think you’ll be alright.
how did you manage to quit? give us some tips please.
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“I also remember them calling Theo shit in comparison to Pato”
*sighs*
Arsene described Theo as a “goal machine” last week
*sobs*
If any game proved this team could cope without Theo, then it was the home game against Liverpool. Looking forward to the match tomorrow.
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Anyone who was not impressed from the off by Koscielny (the raw talent was obvious, just needed some ironing and starch spray to complete the job), or by the arrival of Germany’s best defender to complement Tommy V and Koscielny, they need to find a new hobby .
Smalling & Jones might turn out to be ok at CB (AW was allegedly after them), I don’t know. But as they have both spent the last two years playing elsewhere it’ll be a big change for them to step straight in there. They’ll need a season or two at least, I guess. Can the mancy mancs wait that long? Nope!
Bit like Barcelona shipping over a PL box to box CM expecting that this player who had played in Blighty since the age of seventeen/sixteen would be able to make the same instant adaptation made by the experienced Mascherano, who had also grown up and developed in a more familiar league (before the infamous move to West Ham).
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Looking back, quitting is easy as hell if you want to really do it. If you’re not totally committed, you may as well not even start.
I did the nicotine patches and it was pretty smooth sailing throughout. I developed a bit of anxiety, but it started to go away once I started exercising and eating better.
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I remember the doomers not being convinced by the arrival of Per Mertesacker. The turning radius of a barge, they said. Too slow, they said. That tackle against Crystal Palace, where he did a near split, that’s BFG for you. Hopefully, Real Madrid squanders Varane and he comes in right when BFG starts to age a bit.
Koscielny had class written all over him when he arrived. It took him some time to settle into the league, but whenever he played in Europe he was amazing. There aren’t too many defenders who play Messi off the park and he did just that.
I don’t think Smalling and Jones are ever going to amount to much. Villa’s Nathan Baker and Ciaran Clark, who are in the same age range, are better. I think Nathan Baker is going to be the next big CB prospect for England. Another young lad is James Tomkins. I think he’s also going to be a good premier league CB.
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“Can you hear the drum fernando?” LOL Mel. hehehehehehehe
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