People are always banging on about us buying “World Class” players.Whatever that means.
Anyway, that got me thinking about when we did have a team full? The Invincibles?
Or have we ever actually had one?
Was it the greatest team the Premier league has ever seen, or did the stars align and give us a gift from the football Gods? Indeed, was it even a gift or is it a curse, an achievement that means that we will forever be underachieving in the minds of some of our more demanding fans?
I have actually heard people say that we failed to build and progress from that team .What did they want, a season where we won every game? What then, would we have to improve on that?Of course they completely ignore the move to the new stadium ,which ensured a few backward steps would by necessity be taken,rather than building on what was a once in a lifetime team.
So, for the sake of argument, I want to ask and then answer a couple of questions about the class of 04.
- Would that squad win the league now?
- Would they all have been playing in sky blue by 05?
Would that squad win the league now? I am not sure it would.
I have no doubt that the first eleven would still be the best in the league, but I am not convinced the squad players were good enough to cope with the strength of the current league. I believe every team is better than they were then, including United(controversial I know). We say there are no easy games in the Premiership now; well I think there was then.
Every team has better players and more of them .Even teams at the very bottom of the league can have several full internationals.Some of the players in the bottom half in 04 would struggle to get into League 1 teams these days.Don’t kid yourselves,there were some real dross a decade ago.
They ended the season with one more point than last year’s champions and the runners up. Would they have dropped more than one point in last year’s league? I think they would.
On the other hand, perhaps they would have turned some of the end of season draws into wins.
In 05, basically the same team, finished with seven less points and twelve points behind the Champions. There is an argument to be made that if Chelsea were not a better team, they did seem to have bought a better squad.
The thing we are told now is “Teams win games, squads win championships” .The numbers would seem to suggest that the 04 squad would now be found wanting.
Would they all have been playing in sky blue by 05? The way things have gone, I believe that our team of Invincibles would not now be given the chance to stay together. As soon as Chelsea started paying inflated wages “Cashley” headed for the hills.
Because we have won nothing for eight years, players can claim they are leaving because they are ambitious to win silverware. That was hardly the case for young Mr. Cole. For him it was the money. Simple as that. Imagine how many would have headed up the M6 with the riches on offer today. Remember Ashley was a Gooner; if anyone should have been loyal, it was him.
Does anyone think that if Vieira had been offered £300k Per week and a 4 year deal,aged 29,he would not have flown the coop.Or that greatest of icons Dennis Bergkamp,rather than the one year deal he was offered by us?
I like to imagine Dennis would have stayed.But who am I kidding?
I suppose what I am saying is that people, fans, do not always appreciate just how much the Oil Money has changed the game. My contention is that not only would the greatest eleven ever seen, a team with five(I think)of the best players in their positions in the whole wide world, would have struggled to win today’s league ,but it could never come to be in the first place.
We did have though, didn’t we, us, no one else? Just us. And we will have it forever thanks to a certain French genius
Positively Arsenal 
Taking it a bit further, imagine every PL club bought by a multi-billionaire. They bring in the best 20 managers available. Each of them given a squillion quid to go and purchase the “BEST”. (Probably only 19 though ‘cos AW wouldn’t go for that old bollox.)
At the end of the season though, 1 Champion and 3 relegated (not Arsenal)
Keep the faith.
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george here is the killer
those who cant do…preach and teach..and those who cant do either..critisise
genius…. applies for everything.
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I think you answer both your questions correctly.
btw, in the title, you need a comma between “yourself” and “the league”, otherwise it almost looks like you mean the opposite of what you say in the article.
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And great news about the kit deal – Nike wanted to continue with us but “couldn’t meet our demands”. Heh heh. Love it.
That’ll be our useless chief exec and pointless commercial team doing sod-all again, then. Amazing how all these deals just fall into our laps with no effort whatsoever on our part.
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A fair analysis George and interesting that you raise the squad quality and strength issue in the season that an “unspectacular” ManYoo squad, I shall put it no stronger than unspectacular, has romped away with the Premier League.
Looking back to 2004 I remember the stories of Roman Abramovich offering £50 million for Henry, and presumably a huge wage to go wit it, but being turned down. Not so sure it ever happened, and at the time Roman’s credentials were far from clear, but it may have been loyalty that kept the boy with us
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wai wai wait..is this fucking true ? are we still in april ? what day? need confirmation before opening champagnes.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/index.html
nahhhh he is just teasing everyone….me included… 🙂
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Puma sounds decent enough. Never been a fan of Adidas, their three-stripe design just doesn’t appeal to me.
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The argument about medals or playing in the champions league says it all, were the chavs or city winning league titles before the oil money? And did they not offer more wages & fees than anybody else to attract players like Yaya Toure despite not having won titles or at that stage been in the CL, follow the money-it’s always about the money, I’d like to think the invincibles would have stayed loyal if the same oil money would have been around in that period,we all know that would not have been the case,bloody Ashley Cole proved that-still some people blame the manager,incredible really.
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saruman is off !!!!!! football is free! the tyrrant has left…now do you all see why arsene was kind enough to sell robin to him..???..BUCKET LIST ladies and gentlemen..you help me i help you we both climb the mountain…let me win it this last year and once im gone the league is yours arsene, you have prepared th ebest to take advantage of it, ive told the f.a to make you their honeybunnioes from now on..good call on keeping them brittish youngsters arsene…the stage is yours..
hallelujah- happy mondays remix
burn it all to the ground !!!!!!
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Food for thought, George.
Well that is one helluva shirt deal – going back briefly to yesterday’s post, this kind of deal in the pipeline is only ever going to add to AW’s confidence for the future.
How the Board found time to do this deal when we’ve been reliably informed their only interest in the club is in ‘asset-stripping’, I’ll never know.
And It’ll be interesting to see where Manure go from here. Could imagine a safe pair of hands such as David Moyes splitting the united fanbase in half with at least some wanting a bigger name (maureen etc). And what a hideous job if he ends up upstairs overseeing his legacy; who on the planet to stand up to him when things are going wrong … A Fergie-lite version of the last 20+ years isn’t going to do the club too many favours.
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guys guys guyas !!!! what puma ??? …forget about that……that scottish bastard is calling it a day 🙂
celebrate !!!!!
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Very good article George, but as they say, We are Arsenal! So your argument is worthless.
Glad about the puma deal. Fruits of labour coming about.
I am actually sad to see Manure’s manager go. I wanted him to stay and get spanked by Arsene and Arsenal on our way to our next title. Luckily the guy taking over next is a dickhead.
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I agree with George.
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@ Sensational Arsenal May 8, 2013 at 11:59 am
“I am actually sad to see Manure’s manager go. I wanted him to stay and get spanked by Arsene and Arsenal on our way to our next title.”
I feel the same.
And PG, that looks much more like it. Chuffed that you took my point.
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It’s Howard Webb that I really feel for today
Discarded like an old shoe – abandoned
At his age
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Good article, George. I learn so much from you guys.
In other news, Aaron Ramsey wins Player of the Month. I’m so damn proud of that kid I could burst. Way to show the haters, Aaron. We are lucky he didn’t just tell them all to go to hell, and move somewhere else. Strong character, that boy.
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hello guys. great post george.
i still believe some of the invincibles would still have stayed despite the money. lets respect our past legends. after all wenger is still with us despite the lure of chavs, psg, madrid and recently from monaco.
but i seriously doubt if they will win the league. the league has in no doubt improved. just imagine the quality of players in clubs like spuds, everton, chavs, liverpool and must i mention city. what is however not in doubt is if the they could win without any defeat. never.
all i’m just praying for is for us to keep all our important players for a start. sagna inclusive. stability is the key.
people say we dont have world class players. i say we are just a major trophy away from having a sqad full of them. caz, kos, szcz , jack, gibbs, walc, arteta, giroo, mart… are just one trophy away.
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Great post George. Reminds of the lame troll meme attempting to compare AFC to Dortmund, which ignored that :
a) AFC beat Dortmund in their relatively recent encounter (an intriguing omission. Stupidity, or something else?)
a) Context. The current QPR squad has a higher wage bill then the current Dortmund squad (an intriguing omission. Stupidity, or something else?)
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cashley cole was a gooner alright, but being a gooner doesnt mean you cannot be cunt. there are many twats around who are gooners. just take a trip to le groan. you will be suprise how many gunners in the order of sir cashley still around. when last did you visit aclf? many plastic fans all around. yet there are some of us here who have remain faithful.
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Those results against Dortmund gave last seasons squad the kind of lift that this seasons second leg result against Munchen did for the new squad we have this year. I’m definitely no expert, therefore I conclude that it takes some effort to miss that, and the above.
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red nose has been planning for this over the last 3 seasons. that is why he never plan for the future. just take a look at the players in manure. past it or about to. he only bought the traitor to speed up the process.
i pity moyes. he will need more than 5 howard webb to make the top 4 with this sqad. as for the van traitor, he can go and hug his father in the board room.
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George. I like it. Ta.
Bored with all the talk of Fergie now. Still, you have to pity the lil’ Dutch boy losing his new dad so soon. It’s always the kids I feel sorry for.
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@pumafootball say there will be an important announcement this evening by 1900 GMT hope its about the news of our new kit sponsorship.
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@ layksite May 8, 2013 at 2:02 pm
“red nose has been planning for this over the last 3 seasons. that is why he never plan for the future.”
very likely.
“@pumafootball say there will be an important announcement this evening by 1900 GMT hope its about the news of our new kit sponsorship.”
Let’s hope so, or some of us could be embarrassed.
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Thanks George.
Geeze what a day!
Have to say well done Ivan for showing the naysayers ‘what do you do?’ £60m a year from just two main sponsors, and we don’t have to wear 3 stripes! Happy days.
Even happier day, Darth Ferg is departed to full time in the bookies shop. Will sort of miss him.
I give credit to him, he has been 2nd the greatest manager I’ve ever seen, Clough was far better (when sober.)
This now means Wenger is the top dog of the prem managers. Next season just gets better looking every day.
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Anicoll5,
It might explain why Coward Webb finally showed the cohjoles to send a manc off.
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i’m so happy for aaron ramsey. what a story! i’m moved to tears.
if only you guys saw how i almost fought a guy on saturday who was busy slating him every time he loses possession.
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fun gunner, cant blame me, we fucking need the money!
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plus, i dont like adidas. their 3 stripes is outdated.
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now that we are going to get some money, should we sign webb from united? he is their biggest player.
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Squeaky bum time on the New York Stock Exchange where Manyoo shares are receiving a good kicking – $167 million off the value of the club 20 minutes into the session
Snigger
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You beat me to it, Anicoll.
Howard Webb must be gutted today.
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It was the news trotting out of Godolphin Stables that did for Donny Slurgus.
Neigh! I can’t help myself. Sorry. For that I deserve to be, uh, strangely electrocuted whilst walking near some protected and grounded cables. Um.
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Ferguson was a socialist? Could have fooled me. He threw more money around than most managers and he went right long with the capitalization of football in the nineties.
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Yeah it’s very silly when folks describe him as a socialist. He’s a lifelong supporter of the Labour Party is all. Which has had little to do with any concept of “socialism” for donkey’s years.
He was a shop steward in an earlier life.
Which explains a lot actually..
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A heartfelt and uplifting blog, Mr Pedantic George. Another quality post. I was wondering, can you track the amount of hits you get daily these days? This website is like a beacon in a sea of gloom and I was wondering how many other moths besides myself were drawn to it.
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Re purchase orders for stadiums
&
The way Football is going.
Levy & Pals Plc. (Reg.Grand Cayman or thereabouts) rebuilding of N17 in their own image is in full fling already. The long game was always their game.
–
A fantastic, characteristic modern inner city stadium will be a rare treat for football fans compared to the bland dislocated out of towners (that includes Middlesex) that already exist or will come in the future.
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Amazed they didn’t announce the Moyes appointment at the time of the Ferguson development – the markets hate uncertainty. Wonder what they will settle down at – can’t believe Moyes is a name that’s ringing too many bells over the pond.
Must admit I like the retro Puma look but best of all is the ending of the cross-branding with most of the other clubs in Europe that I can’t abide thanks to Nike’s over-bearing dominance (not to mention nauseating advertising programmes).
My only other thought going back to Ferguson is that last summer when he signed the injury prone one, my gut feeling was that for Slur A there was an excellent chance that other people might end up picking up the pieces of another extended injury. What’s the dutch boy on, a four year contract; no longer Ferguson’s problem when he eventually breaks down …
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If that squad was together now at the age they were in 04 would they win the PL now?
It is not as easy as that are you saying the team back then plays now at the same age and also did the 04 season happen. If the 04 season did happen and then you tranfered the team by DeLorean to the start of this season would that team of won this PL. I think the answer is yes they would or maybe not for it depends on what happened to the Arsenal team in the mean time. Did Wenger and Arsenal carry on with the same tacticle approach he has done or because he lost the team did he start over again.
If Wenger/Arsenal carried on then they would struggle because the tactics of other teams adapted over a few years to stop Wengerball, they sit deeper stopping the likes of Henry getting behind them, they employ a more defencive central two to try and stop the DB10 & RP7 type and the runs of Freddie.
If the squad got transported before the start of the 04 season and so never happend the way it did then the tactics of teams might now be different and so there is a strong posibility that they would win the PL.
The other question would the team back in 04 be able to play the 433 formation would DB10 be best used in this formation, would TH14 get the service he needs at the striker?
If then was now would the team of stayed together no I think we would see the Brussia Dortmund effect much like the Arsenal effect back in 05/06/07 with players leaving to follow the money DB10 might and probably would of stayed but the others would of gone much quicker.
Does all this mean the PL is now stronger(which is another whole diffrerent question than the one I think your asking) no in my mind not, what we have now is a average league with many competitive teams of the same average level. It’s more the Arsenal’s & Chelsea’s falling back into he grip of others than the others getting better. Gareth Bale is a prime example of this a good player on a good run of form held up as the shinning light of the PL when if you look at the stats he is behind players like the very inconsistant Theo. He is compared to Messi and Ronaldo if this is true then where do players like Henry, Bergkamp and Pires come in this magical list.
Comparing sides from diffrent era’s even ones so close is a futile exercise as many things change, tactics, speed, rules, refs etc wold the great Arsenal side of the 1930’s win todays PL of course not, would the team of 71 win the double now No, would GG’s team of 89 win the PL nope and so on…..
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I agree with PG.
1. Yes, the Invincibles would have won the league now.
2. No, not all of them would have been in sky blue the next year. We had enough greats to share among Shitty, Man U, Chavs, Catalunya, Madrid, Bayern, Milan & PSG.
The world just came to an end for all things red manc.
Their high priest finally yanked the proverbial carpet.
How well the Glazers, stocks, business deals, Rooney,vainPursie et al, the FA, H.Webb & co. & their plethora of disciples handle life without ‘ol red nose is entirely their f**king problem!
…hee, hee.
do we have new kit visuals to go with the Puma deal ye all speak of?
when does the deal actually begin?
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Lest I forget:
MAY THE FORCE BE WITH RAFA & THE CHAVS TONIGHT…
A FORCE OF ABOUT 2-0 TO BE EXACT.
RASERS!
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People seem to be misunderstanding what I am getting at .My fault no doubt.
The thrust of my argument is that because there are no easy games now,the squad would have been to weak to win the league .
I firmly believe the team would have beaten any current team.But because games would have been harder,they would have struggled to field the best 11 week in week out.
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Ahhh it all makes perfect sense now and you are right in what you say.
http://youaremygooners.weebly.com/2/post/2013/04/arsene-wengerone-of-arsenals-greatest-managers-or-the-man-who-has-led-this-great-football-club-into-a-cul-de-sac-that-it-will-never-get-out-of.html
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Interesting development at Manu. I chuckle thinking Rvp to be managed by Moyes, if he gets the job. SAF of course has had a glittering and most remarkable career, and we’ll be reminded about a million times in the media frenzy. I always thought he was the best in his era at playing the system, buying, building, bulldozing and bullshitting. He bought a lot of expensive duds and got away with it. I’m certain football historians will look back on SAF-Wenger as defining this era, and the comparisons are extremely interesting. I would think classy Wenger has high regard for Alex, but equally knows exactly the unseemly what and how, and declined to walk that road.
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Didn’t misunderstand @ all PG (note my opening sentence).
T’would have been harder but they would still have won it.
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ZimPaul – will be so amusing if Manure decline out of the trophy runnings for the next two or three years … as Arsenal re-enter.
Poor Robin.
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When looking at this season’s PFA Team of the Year I was reminded of the cliched saying that comes from some Arsenal fans – “None of our current lot would get into the Invincibles side”. Because none of that PFA lot would get into the Invincibles XI either. The only one who is even debatable is Mata over Ljungberg, in terms of pure quality. But in practical terms I would think Freddie would keep out Juan for his attributes were a vital cog in that Arsenal machine.
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This is painful. Wanting Chelsea to win and jumping with joy when they just scored! Ahhhhh! I’m between a rock and a hard place….
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Bollocks!
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Ramires!!!!!!!!!!
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