Part 3 of a guest post series by Red Henry. Feel free to take a look at Part 1 and Part 2 as well.
Where do the outrageous demands arsenal fans have, come from?
What is it in the Wenger set up that makes them remember the past with such fondness?
I hear many say that Arsenal was a big club before Wenger’s appointment. I do not wish to argue that since my idea of stature is perhaps different to that of these fans.
Let us take a peek at the true reflection of a club’s status around the world, which is none other than the official UEFA ranking system. Whether we like it or not, European competitions and achievements in Europe is what separates the really big clubs from the occasional domestic dominance one club might experience in its domestic league. Looking at Arsenal’s past there is no other era where the club was dominant in its domestic league other than the 30’s. It is important to remember that this was 80 years ago. From there on till the late 80’s the club’s success was like that of a nomad. Some here, some there, totally inconsistent.
Between the 1953 League title, until the 1989 epic at Anfield ,the club really had only one serious feature to boast about, the 71 double. You could say that between ’53 and ’89, which is 36 years, the club won the title only once. Now that is quite a big gap for a club who’s fans want to boast about “greatness”.
Until Wenger arrived, Arsenal possessed 10 champion titles scattered across (1996-1886) 110 years. If we take it as an average it brings a title every 11 years, or one per decade to keep it simple. That is not the record of a big club. To give you an idea, Madrid has 32 champion titles, Barcelona 21, Bayern Munich 22, AC Milan 18, Juventus 28, Ajax 31, Liverpool 18, Manchester United 19. Yet here we are with our ten titles thinking we are comparable to these clubs, and as fans demand to be their equal.
The fact that Wenger added 3 in the space of 7 years and could have more should give an indication to our fans that it is only through Wenger that Arsenal was going to be able to catch those teams at some point.
But how do you do that when your venue is an old 38k seat stadium and your most famous ever world class player in the modern era was Brady?
This myth about Arsenal being a big club before Wenger might apply in the narrow-minded perception of the average English football fan, but trust me the Europeans didn’t really shake in their boots at the prospect of facing Arsenal.
That United has passed Arsenal in the title count shouldn’t be used as a stick to beat Wenger with,since United has also beaten Liverpool’s record and are a club who like it or not are very very serious with their marketing. Some even accuse them for milking their historical tragedy to attract worldwide sympathy. In the world of marketing and business everything is allowed apparently. Plus United started doing what we are doing now, a decade ( and more) sooner than Arsenal did and in an era where Blackburn could win the title with the likes of Sutton. A totally different situation to today’s environment where Arsenal had to face the influx of foreign owners pumping money of dubious origin into the system.
I studied the UEFA ranking systems to give me an idea of what stature Arsenal held in the eyes of the world and to my amazement i saw this “big club” occupying positions between 79 and 36 between late 70’s and late 90’s. I have allowed for the period where clubs weren’t allowed to participate in Europe (where English clubs were at position 209 and lower) and haven’t counted them. When Arsenal was winning the 71 double ..Ajax vs Panathinaikos were playing at the Wembley final for the European cup. Have you ever heard a lot talked about of Panthinaikos? Me neither…. yet until arsenal reached the final in 2006 clubs like them were higher in the UEFA ranking system than our “big club”. I found teams like As Roma, Eindhoven, Leverkusen, Atletico Madrid amongst others who were much much higher on the list than Arsenal.
Do you know what position Arsenal occupies today and for the last decade or so?
A fluctuation between pos 4 and 6. Considering Arsenal has never won it, I’d say their co-efficient is top top class.
Who has contributed the most for that?
George Graham and his back four?
Dein?
Is it not the consistency that Wenger has brought to this club at the highest level that has placed arsenal in the elite?
16 years of continuous top four finishes domestically and 12-13 years always in Europe’s last 16. That’s what counts. A consistency that cannot be denied. A consistency that allows Arsenal to look at the big boys eye to eye, even without ever winning the top European prize, yet.
It is utterly stupid of Arsenal fans to ignore these realities and live in the “bubble” of domestic achievements, which again are scattered across a century of mediocrity with the exception of an era in the 30’s.
People don’t remember Madrid because of their Copa Del Reys nor do people remember Liverpool for their FA cups. They remember them because of the 9 and 5 respectively and the memories they have given to football fans at a global level.
It is also utterly stupid to attack the club and the manager on the basis of 6 or 7 or 8 trophyless years as the club has clearly prioritized healthy accounts and repaying their stadium rather than going for any titles.
It is a period where the fans are completely WRONG to moan about the trophy statistic.
So why do they moan?
Could it be that the media are pulling the legs of weak-minded arsenal fans who don’t know their club’s history or what status it enjoyed in pre-Wenger times?
Could it be that the rivals taunting have managed to mess with the arsenal fan’s mind and make him consider that the trophies are more important than the stability and health of the football club?
Arsenal football club chose to expand and use Wenger’s early success to launch the club to a new era. It was always on the cards that the immediate period after the move the club would focus on financial matters rather than offering Kodak moments to glory seekers. Perhaps that’s too hard a concept for the not so clever fans to come to terms with, but not for those who know what we used to be and the places we have been with Wenger at the helm.
This era of continued competence and consistent placement at the top echelons of Europe is actually unfamiliar territory for Arsenal football club. We are practically virgins. Of course this does not diminish our past domestic achievements. But it does perhaps put them into perspective.
Positively Arsenal 
Superb analysis. Three more points to add: 1) The period from 1986 until 2013 is the greatest period in the club’s history, 5 League titles (1 unbeaten!), 5 FA Cups, 2 League Cups, 1 Cup Winners’ Cup, Cup Winners’ Cup, UEFA Cup and Champions League finals, only 4 finishes outside the top 4, only 2 outside the top 6, constant Champions League football, world class training centre and a brand new stadium! 2) Trophies didn’t matter when George won 6 in 8 years, we were just ‘boring Arsenal’, why are they important now? 3) I am fed up of ‘fans’ saying how bad we are now, do they seriously think players like Podolski, Giroud, Walcott, Arteta, Cazorla, Wilshere, Vermaelen, Rosicky, Diaby are worse than McGoldrick, Selley, Hillier, Linighan, Carter, Kiwomya, Hartson etc (from the mid 1990s when we really DID have a bad season in 1994-95)?? The mind boggles…
LikeLike
shock and awe 😉
LikeLike
That graphic at the top says it all. A picture they say is worth more than a thousand words.
Yet Arsenal fans doubt the manager and pour scorn on the players wearing the shirt.
LikeLike
Morning all.
Just a flying visit to say, “PA just gets better & better”
Well done to everyone involved.
Now back to the grindstone. BAH
LikeLike
Good quality analysis and cogent comment RH – a pleasure to read
LikeLike
though a chelsea supporting scum and a thoroughly despicable fat bastard i have to agree with his latest piece ….i agree with martin samuel..there i said it… he is bang on target when he says that the english manager has to convince the players of his stature ..and how practices which are normal for tournament preparations were villified so as to stroke the egos of the players……arsene if they ever pop the question raise the middle one and then turn and fart in their faces as you walk out …
LikeLike
This analysis is the polished version of a very strong argument Hunter repeatedly made elsewhere 1-2 years ago until he was drummed out-of-town. Hunter may have been overly aggressive then but I suspect the truth that Arsene Wenger had transformed Arsenal into a “big club” was unpalatable for those with a parochial “Inglander” mentality. My personal experience from the Caribbean 20 years ago was Arsenal was a non-entity compared to Liverpool and ManUnited. Today it is central in the consciousness of the average football fan. I doff my hat to Wenger and to folks like Red Henry and Hunter who speak the truth.
LikeLike
If these Red Henry haven’t caused a few people to have a word with themselves then I’m surprised. Just brilliant.
LikeLike
These Red Henry write ups I meant.
LikeLike
fantastic chart too ..magna carta !! the whole truth .
LikeLike
shotta im glad you agree and i aint surprised you agree. i tend to find people who are outside the uk who have a proper understanding of where we were, what we were, and what we have evolved into.
sadly the arsenal fan in england needs to travel abroad a bit and recognise with his very eyes the respect and admiration arsenal enjoys.
the worst part is that folks with perspective are called plastic and accused that they only got to know arsenal with wenger…totally false.
LikeLike
Hunter, I got to know Arsenal because of Wenger. Arsenal’s best marketing guy is Wenger. His style of football and principles made me a fan. I am sure countless more will say this.
The chart says it all. If only I could takeover every Arsenal blog and the online media. This chart will be posted everywhere.
Great post Red Henry.
LikeLike
well well well
I would love to see an argument against this.
What the moaning Arsenal supporters are doing is bashing Wenger for the heights that HE took Arsenal to. If they were children we would call them spoiled brats.
Brilliant, yet again. Thanks RH!
LikeLike
ha paul -n the best is when they accuse him of not knowing how to spend the clubs money … status ridiculous retardous..
im a bit shit in latin ..only victoria concordia crescit i know…
LikeLike
you made a splendid choice sav…perhaps the best decission in your life ( wifes kids excluded .(?)
LikeLike
Hunter, some of the rubbish is beyond belief. I even hear experts questioning some of the current signings, like Per and Podolski. Its as if people expect players to come into a league one year and totally dominate it and that in a team that is almost totally different from just two seasons ago. Players getting to know eachother and the PL is of little or no importance to these “experts”. They make me sick, to say the least.
LikeLike
PA is my favorite arsenal Blog these days. Great work…
My take on the whole Wenger out scenario is :
Arsene is a victim of his own success. When Arsene achieved in his early years (double, invincibles, etc), there was a influx of fans. These people, without any sense of our history, got the impression that arsenal are, have been and will always be the league champions.
So when the present reality of new stadium, oil money, player poaching and refereeing bias struck, these fans don’t like it. They want “their” old arsenal back (’96-’04?).
OTOH, we the Gooner faithful know Arsenal. We enjoy modern attacking football, a manager who understands decency and a club with a Future.
COYG
LikeLike
I pray to the one true god I believe in(DB10),
Deliver us from the vile media,
Protect our knees and ankles from the orcs and walruses,
Our penalty box from diving monkeys,
Our youngsters from poaching paedos,
Be With us through the interluls,
Guide us through tough times,
And last but not least
Inspire us as always to be the best we can be – club, players and fans alike.
Amen
LikeLike
I dont have an account on there, so if someone could PLEASE post this on the gooner forum and watch the place melt down I would be very grateful! – onlinegooner.com
I’d love to see what the “Wenger out brigade” have to say about it.
Fantastic article, you’ve just gone to the top of my must read blogs. 🙂
LikeLike
Whilst I agree with the point you are trying to make I find some of the content of this post and the series quite dismissive and derogatory towards some players and ex-managers. Also, I find the comparison of Utd to Arsenal when AW took over as a bit weak considering United had 10 titles at the time too.
LikeLike
Daniel, I would like to know, what exactly have you found dismissive and derogatory?
LikeLike
Apart from your gripe with the United comparison, what fault do you find with this write up in particular.
LikeLike
For me, I could not give two blow wow if Arsenal were not as big prior to AW because I support Arsenal and not the title of big. Great players were here and the club accomplished some stuff sporadically but the fact is we were not as big. In my opinion that is no slight on who came before, it is simply stating the facts. This is a defence of AW and not slight on the former. At least, that is how I have percieved this series.
LikeLike
Red Nose had a full decade with Manure before Wenger came to town. He won the title one more time after Wenger arrived and then we traded the league title back and forth for a few years until we built the stadium. Off the pitch, however, we are heading toward zero debt, while Man U keeps piling it on and on and on. So if Ferguson leaves and it causes his club to have a huge dip, who is actually better off when all is said and done? How do they manage all this debt if they’re not as attractive anymore?
LikeLike
Where is everybody?
LikeLike
Top, Top read. should be published on every Arsenal blog. In fact just get it published on Arsenal.com.
LikeLike
People saying stuff like “oh, united also had 10 titles back then, and they’ve kept winning it” ; United also didnt have to build a new stadium in that time, which cost, 390million pounds? No club could’ve kept winning while paying for the stadium, except if it was owned by a billionaire like abrahimovic or some other sheikh.
just to quote Wenger himself: “If you eat caviar every day it’s difficult to return to sausages.”
LikeLike
It’s been a quiet day, George.
LikeLike
Perhaps some of our regulars disagree.
Its allowed you know
LikeLike
It is probably testament to this blog that some people on twitter seem to find the most objectionable line as the one about Brady being our most famous player before Arsene. And even that because they seem to interpret declaring that as declaring the rest as shit and disregarded (which is just silly because it would mean saying Jack is our best player right now implies the rest are shit)
LikeLike
Yeh, it is ok to disagree. I really hope Daniel responds with what he believes has been disrespectful.
The ranking cannot be disputed as far as the numbers but maybe one can say what the heck does UEFA know.
LikeLike
@hunter13 your post @1.14
You make some very interesting points which are always entertaining. Going to disagree slightly on your reference to English fans. In my experience from other blogs a lot of posts with derogatory remarks refer to the EPL which is a bit of a give away. Worst offenders are those who refer to Arsenal having the most expensive seats in the EPL and they will not spend anothe prnny on them. Some even have the cheek to say they will boycott the next match……. On TV!
I take that back the worst offenders, both UK and international are those that hope the team loses in order to get a wenger sacked grrrrrrr
LikeLike
Very nice write up RED.
now for everyone to go and put the link everywhere the topic comes up.
everywhere…
LikeLike
AFC are not only ones to have had spoilt fans, Blackburn fans were spoilt by Jack Walker, Gazprom upon Chelsea fans by Gazprom and AFC fans by….Dein? That must be it!
I don’t understand how a graph can be derogatory. It is merely a statistical record.
LikeLike
hey bob maybe so heh…i dont see the purpose of the article as being offensive to arsenal’s past, at worst its a dig to those who dont appreciate the change for the better because perhaps their culture on the game is a bit primitive … the improvement in all aspects of the club and the instrumental guidance of this particular manager is not to be forgotten ignored or insulted as it is by some sections of the fans… disappointment ? ok yes i accpet, frustration? acceptable too..but when it turns to the point where they insult our intelligence with claims like ” he dont know tactics” ,” he is a dictator, he is taking us backwards, he wastes money, he is past it” …which lead to idiots with banners of ” thanks , you can fuck off now”… well…that a lot of mud throwing there to be left without a responce…..and such responces are meant to cut a bit ..if you catch my drift ….
the team and club were on their way of achieving great things for their age and half of them got crippled, the other were damaged psychologically by the expectations, demands and pressure, and we had to face a biassed system from all the way from media to referees……why does the arsenal fan not focus on the “traps” that have been laid down arsenal’s path to glory and focus on the anti-wenger and anti-arsenal media ramblings ?
if you were chelsea or totenahm ( horrible i know) would you not laugh your arse off watching arsenal fans turning against wenger ? …. 😉
LikeLike
Hunter totally agree I am so fed up with people spouting on about the bad buys (silvestre, Jeffers etc). How about Fergie buying Veron, snd that dodgy Italian keeper , Chelsea buying Bogaade ( did he ever play?) how much did Dalgleish waste at Liverpool?
Sure Wenger has made mistakes, in my opinion not buying Schwarzer was his biggest, but don’t they all?
Seems to me that most people are in one camp or the other, very few in the middle. I wonder if the other lot ever smile?
When the good times come again they will no doubt claim the credit
LikeLike
Veron! Djemba Djemba. Kleberson, Anderson (*oh yes!)….It’s a long long expensive list. And my favourite, the Portugeezer Connection: Bebe.
LikeLike
Abou Diaby, the last of the heroes.
http://news.arseblog.com/2013/03/diaby-at-swansea-by-the-numbers/
LikeLike
Djemba Djemba…. Classic
LikeLike
Fins bury if he could only stay fit he would be great. Didn’t they say that about RVP?…
LikeLike
Bob I’m no expert but I think they are different situations.
But I’ve said it before and I’m happy to say it again, Diaby is not a bad player to have in any squad (I remember the injury riddled Edu, who gave AFC one and half, two glorious seasons. Which is as much as most players dare to hope for in their careers (am I being too realistic there? I dunno).
We have missed Diaby’s cover (Song), and I’m not worried.
LikeLike
Finsbury
Don’t disagree. I think Diaby gets worse press because he is a big sod. He doesn’t look the fragile type
LikeLike
That’s true Bob, Diaby has shown great fortitude both physically and mentally.
LikeLike
Well done, Red Henry. Great series.
I’d be interested to hear what Daniel disagrees with as the basis for the thrust of this article is factual, with objective data provided from outside Arsenal.
LikeLike
Arsenal U21s 2-1 Man United U21s. The reverse fixture ended 2-2 with a fightback from our kids. Goals – Henderson penalty (won by Bellerin) and Bellerin – assisted by Henderson, with pleasing symmetry.
LikeLike
Tremendous work Red H; terrible thing, the truth – it often hurts.
LikeLike
Sounds like our lad Bellerin is progressing very well, FG. An exceptional talent, for sure.
LikeLike
Red Henry, nice work… all three parts a good read.
Rob @ 3:13 I have stuck the graph that RedHenry uses above on online gooner before but such things just get ignored and folk there show themselves as the very best examples of selective hearing/reading I have ever encountered.
LikeLike
Fins @ 7:40 pm. Thanks for that link to Arseblog re Diaby-at-Swansea. I want to commend the 7amkickoff blogger who does by-the-numbers posts for doing the honorable thing by setting the record straight. His initial report of the match on his blog sparked the usual anti-Diaby diatribe by a number of his commenters. Diaby may have been rusty but he did an effective job but our own fans are so steeped in their negative bias they wanted him to break his own leg. A similar hatchet job was done by posters elsewhere.
For me it is imperative that we at PA help protect these players targetted by the ignorant rabble from this nonsense.
LikeLike
“Sure Wenger has made mistakes, in my opinion not buying Schwarzer was his biggest, but don’t they all?”
To be fair Bob, you can’t buy a player if the owner’s don’t want to sell. As I recall, he was almost ours until Fulham got a new manager who wanted to keep him. I don’t see how that is classed as a Wenger mistake?
I would also be interested to know what Daniel’s point is too? How on earth do manure’s 10 titles have anything to do with the point of the article? Perhaps he needs to read it again after the red mist has evaporated from his eyes.
Excellent article Red Henry. Arsene has raised Arsenal to undreamt of levels and is being unfairly held to a standard he set during a time when the football landscape was very different to what it is now. I think there are a lot of people with selective memories who remember the high lights and conveniently forget the years of struggle in between. They have been totally brainwashed by the media bullshit about 8 years without considering the context and the wider achievements outside of the shiny metal objects.
LikeLike