We like to hear things that reinforce our opinions.
We agree with those that have the same opinions as us and argue against those who have opinions that differ. Of course we do. Why would we not? I have yet to meet someone that thinks their opinion is wrong. If they did they would change it. So everyone thinks their opinion is right.
The problem starts when we argue against someone with superior knowledge of a subject and refuse to entertain the idea that they are more likely to be right than we are.
The problem with football is most people believe they have a great knowledge when in fact, in most cases, mine included, it’s nothing more than a basic layman’s knowledge. Then someone comes along – let’s say someone like Gary Neville – and says the same as you. Now Gary clearly has better than a layman’s knowledge so you hold him up as evidence that not only were you right, but you know as much as him, because you have drawn the same conclusions.
To me though, this a a bit like feelling unwell and wanting the opinion of a consultant to confirm your self-diagnosis; instead you speak to a nurse and because he/she confirms your thoughts, you are happy to accept this opinion.
What are pundits though?
As a rule they are either ex-footballers that were good at kicking a ball and not much else, serially failed managers or shock-jock second-rate journalists. They are employed for their entertainment value much more than their football nous.
As a rule they are “paint by numbers” in their thinking. They stick to the formula of how the layman sees the game. How many times do we hear “the United way, the Liverpool way or the Arsenal way” with pundits insisting that managers should stick to a sometimes 40- or 50-year old way of playing, because that once brought that club success. They pick the moment in time where the club had its greatest success with its greatest team and players and insist that is the template.
In the case of Arsenal that’s The Invincibles.
Arsene mixed that formula, it brought unprecedented success and he should stick to it.
Simples.
Well that might well work if the game had not moved on, if pitches had not improved, if the technical excellence of top players had not improved or perhaps if players as good as those from the previous era are now available to be bought and kept.
However, if you attempt to stick to that formula with lesser players, in a different environment, the chances are success will not follow.
If you are playing Dembélé, Schneiderlin and Remy for Vieira, Gilberto and Henry (because they are the nearest you can get or afford) then will it work? I would suggest not.
If you do what many clubs do and follow the formula of buying the best player you can afford, in the accepted mould, you will finish behind clubs that follow the same formula but can buy better players.
A player like Santi would never see the light of day in mid-field.
It might be that we can’t win the league with diminutive technical players like Santi, Jack, Ozil and Rosicky, but I suggest we have a better chance than with second-rate players that fit the accepted mould.
Pedantic George @Blackburngeorge
Positively Arsenal 
Fine contribution to the conversation.
I quite like Gary as he attempts to do a bit more than the lazy arses such as Lawrenson who make no effort to add to the viewers’ knowledge. He usually has done a bit of research ( of someone working for him has) and tells me something I did not know or puts across a angle that had not occurred to me. It is attractively presented on screen and he is generally cogent in his arguments. Clearly with Arsenal he has less scope for success as I know quote a lot about the club and have most of the angles already covered. For the other 19 teams I generally say ” yeah….”
I must however admit to being irritated with his effort on Monday for reasons I discussed yesterday, Diaby/ Coquelin, but also for the needless personalisation of his analysis, with the attribution of personal failings on the part of the manager.
It is a perfectly respectable set of opinions to hold that “Arsenal would currently benefit from (another) tall, physically strong, central midfield” and that Pat Vieira was a great player and would be a model for this unidentified signing that would bolster Gary’s preferred Arsenal midfield.
I have never heard young Gary come out with this before but hey ho – fair enough. Not a word of this when young Gary was declaring this could be Arsenal PL year, just a fortnight ago. He thinks the “tall strong midfielder’ is worth raising pre Liverpool MNF and he has done so.
If NOTH can be arsed to trawl I have often waxed lyrical on tall, midfield signings.
What is however not acceptable is the characterisation of Wenger as either “arrogant” or “naive” because he has not followed Gary’s sudden Monday Night revelation.
A person is not naive or arrogant simply because they are not acting, or have not acted previously, in a manner which you suddenly decide is important. Your accusation is frankly fucking absurd Gary and, if you thought about it for a moment, one might hope you would see that or someone might point it out to you.
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I have no reservation in declaring that Gary Neville is engaging in lazy, careless generalizations. The common theme in modern football is the growing importance of technically competent players in every position, who are also strong and speedy enough to compete with their peers. If power was the main criteria for success then Barcelona or Spain have no business dominating world football in the past 10 years. Mourinho went to Real Madrid and tried to win with power and speed in the counter-attack. As usual he had some of the best players in the world at his disposal to implement his strategy and he failed miserably. Apart from causing divisions and alienating key stakeholders with his abrasive personality, he was effectively fired by year 3 for failing to overcome Barcelona. Further, they were thoroughly humiliated by a relative lightweights Dortmund in that Champion’s league semi-final in his final year.
In my opinion that was the Waterloo of the disciples of power.
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one of the funniest comments I seen today from an AAA,
“I’m not asking for Arsenal to spend, spend, spend, all I want is for us to sign a World Class striker and a top quality defensive midfielder”
its seems world class strikers and top quality defensive midfielders are a penny a dozen. I’m sure the person who made the comments believes AFC has £200M to spend on transfers.
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people give too much credit to gary just because there are too many idiots talking shit every week on tv. when was the last time any club win just by playing vieira in the midfield. i didnt see any vieira in barca or madrid or bayern. the player madrid missed the most last season was modric. by gary’s analogy, khedira would do abetter job that modric. it’s not the height that matters but the skillset. it is idiotic to start mentioning players based on their physical attributes rather than skill needed. chile just won the copa by playing medel in their defence.
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Ed @ 11:34 am – Do the people who desperately want us to spend £200 million on a world class **** (fill in the blanks) have their heads stuck in their arse. Isn’t it abundantly clear that the Club’s with world class players have no intention of selling. Do they think that Ed Woodward has been joy riding as he trolls all the big clubs in Europe waving the riches of Manchester United to get the world class player they so desperately need. The reality is that ready made solutions do not always exist. Somebody, some coach, some club has to make world class players not buy them. The problem with many of our fans is they fail to acknowledge that we have a manager with a proven track record in this department.
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Great piece George, a potentially complex concept put in simple terms for simple people – I enjoyed it enormously!
It’s also a great explanation of how so many (including this reader) fall into the quagmire of the confirmation bias trap. We probably all do it to a certain extent and I think it’s why Baby Jesus invented science* (*irony alert). Over to Georgakis, one of our resident scientists for, er, confirmation …
Neville’s Monday Night Revelation is a wonderful example of something leading to confirmation bias on a mass scale – the sloppy Arsenal first half and the concession of two further points this early in the season has since combined with the still-grieving Gary’s barely concealed Arsene-directed rage to give rise to an outpouring of doubt and disappointment from the noisiest elements of the Arsenal (un)faithful.
Like Andrew above, I’m also a fan of Neville’s attempts to plough an independent punditry furrow, but his target on Monday – or at least the way he went about it – was somewhat off-beam. Gary’s barely concealed contempt of so many Arsenal players – and, let’s face it, Arsene – was revealing of a man who has let a mask slip to reveal someone who clearly has conflicting emotions over his former greatest rivals. On the one hand he is ‘bigging us up’ and days later, as Andrew says, he’s condemning us and all who sail with us.
City, Swansea and Leicester have clearly started well and United and Chelsea are riding their luck. Meanwhile we have started disappointingly and had a good goal disallowed against a key rival. Not ideal, but if it only takes one admittedly quite highly regarded commentator to have a wobble for the Arsenal support to be plunged into a mire of self-doubt, what does that tell us about our followers’ prospects for the season?
We might expect former professionals from other clubs to take a joy from destabilising their old rivals but for so many of our own to throw the towel in – the group loosely described by one Twitter contributor as The White Flag Brigade – is disappointing in the extreme.
And the biggest part of that disappointment?
How unsurprised I am by these supporters – ‘fans’ that can only be described kindly as ‘lightweight’.
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One of the problems with pundits is they have to say something every time there on, the sheer amount of words they have to utter means rubbish will have to come our eventually. Wasn’t Neville who lorded Arsenes achievements over the last ten years and how the fans should appreciate them. His recent utterance s make him look rather silly. It’s sort of the reverse monkeys writing Shakespeare theory.
George your post is so logical I doubt the so called experts could argue against it however I sure they would rationalize a slightly different approach.
Horses for courses when pullis is playing rugby but when you stay in the CL for twenty years with Ltd money its a failure and a sign of arrogance
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Neville Neville Jnr. Knew exactly what he was up to on Monday Night.
This son of Slurgus wasn’t capable of making a similar critique when his. Brother Phil and friend Moyes were managing Utd. into 7th place in the league.
Sky/Newscorp is to ManU (petro clubs only in second place) as Marca is to Madrid.
Let us not be shy or reticent here: Anyone quoting Newscorp in relation to the Arsenal, is talking out of their arse!
And they know it.
The Meedjah don’t like the Arsenal. I can think of hundreds of millions of reasons why friends of the Special Agents which includes many petty plundits have been upset with AFC these past two decades and longer.
*Commission! “Falcao is a great signing!” Limping mules and bleating monkeys. G.Neville fits into the latter category.
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Spoken like a man who doesn’t make big decisions on the touchline, Gary.
I can’t believe he praised Mourinho for playing Matic, Ramires and Willian in the same team.
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shotta you will find that most of those who are in the spend the £200M are also in the no excuses camp, and on that topic I have on several arsenal sites asked if there are “no excuses” then does “legitimate reasons” count, and I have yet to get even one person answer the point. .
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Gary Neville. LOL. We got formerly sane people that follow our club agreeing with a cheating rat faced Manc. Quite hilarious. My life is becoming a bad scene in Idiocracy. We have Donald Trump running for president and a well known cheat telling one of the of the finest managers the game has seen how to manage. Eisenhower is rolling in his grave
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Surely we’re all at the stage now when we don’t listen to any of the pundits,I know I have been for ages,I watch the actual football itself and that’s it,much easier.
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Great read, points extremely well put. A new Vieira, the solution to the worlds problems. Great point about these lesser midfielders, the likes of Spurs, with as you mention, Dembele,have been packed with such players, and they never finish above Wenger.
Our tactical set up went a bit wrong in the first half this week, Santi got a bit too far away from Coq maybe, but all was magically corrected in the second half…without any new signings at half time!
Some of these pundits just come across as idiots, if the club had listened to the media,our fine team would have in recent years been boasting the likes of Rio Ferdinand, Joey Barton, Chris Samba, Capoue, St Scotty Parkah, and we would probably be managed by Pardew. And they say Wenger lacks ambition.
Can we win with lightweights – very difficult with the referees in this league!
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Ole Neville inspired, a few weeks back, my first ever attempt at writing something for a blog.
I was struggling to cut it down from about 8 pages, the fellow I sent it to couldn’t open the attachment, then Neville’s father passed away a few days later. I figured it wasn’t meant to be.
If anything, though, whatever it is that eats away in his acid guts about Arsenal seems to have been provoked in this difficult time of his, so I may have to try again at some point.
He’s a special one among the generally sorry bunch that is our punditry/ media class. He’s smarter than nearly all of them, argues forcefully and well, and is clearly passionate about and dedicated to his job.
He took me in a fair bit at the start- insight, cogent arguments, as anicoll5 rightly says, and even, and this the crucial bit, the appearance of little bias towards the club of his life and nothing obviously against the enemies of the club of his life.
Before too long,though I started to have doubts- he could criticise United, sure, but always with the utmost respect and with remarkable tactical adroitness- i.e Neville could see when the jig was up with Moyes, and that Moyes leaving was best for the club and then inevitable, so, respectfully, he says things in line with that. That isn’t being unbiased, that is simply seeing what’s best for the club your heart belongs to.
In commentary for individual games the cleverness goes up a few notches ; his eyes fail him when there’s a foul or an offside in Utd’s favour, until the replays start, at which points it’s ‘oh, they may have got lucky there’, etc. When the reverse is true, no replay is needed, he spots things instantaneously, and is much firmer.
All this helps create the impression that (a) he’s a fair-minded, unbiased observer (because he will call things against his team, after all) and (b) while, say, Utd may just have benefitted from a little push on Gibbs into the goalkeeper, or an offside, or whatever…it was a marginal call, one that officials could be forgiven for getting wrong; one that even he missed completely first time around.
The reverse is true when you call things immediately, especially if you do so with force. He’s expert at this, too. In that case, if he sees something and calls it right away, the unthinking viewer is likely to believe- especially given Neville’s credentials as the game’s great straight-shooter- well, that it was an obvious call, that the ref should have seen it and given the pen, or offside, or whatever the decision might be.
One of the best ways to think about just how well has he overcome the threat of bias is to ask what he’d do if Arsenal had Janujaz in their ranks.
Would there be a Monday night football special segment dedicated to the dozen or so times he has dived? Would he find material for a column in it? If you don’t think so, then the preceding is all demented nonsense to you. But he would, for sure he would. And that alone should tell you Neville isn’t what he seems.
In the spirit of know-your-enemy, I read the opening chapter of Neville’s book, written just before he launched his tv career, I believe.
‘United were my team and i’d stand up to them in the face of logic’
In fairness, he’s talking there about his attitude as a child, so he may have moved on from that. The next quote, however, describes his adult views. It fits entirely with how he played. Supposedly he has moved on from it but I don’t believe so.
‘I’ve always known this stick is the price for nailing my colours to the mast like I’ve done ever since I was a kid. But what’s football about if it’s not about taking sides, my club against yours, whether that’s on the pitch, on the terraces, in the bar or in the school playground? United till I die. And to hell with the rest.’
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Rich – would be interested to read your whole GN article. Certainly seemed to drop his guard on Monday, didn’t he?
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Richard Keys @richardajkeys 3h3 hours ago
A thought. Since Utd’s last trophy in 2013 Ars have won 2. They’ve spent £142m Utd £290m + 1 failed C Lge qual. Who’s arrogant and naive?
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ArsenalAndrew
I didn’t see much of it (need my stomach to be at full strength to watch them stick the boot in, especially with Henry in amongst them; got a sense of the way it was going so switched off quite quickly)
However, I’ve read plenty about it since and, yeah, I’d say there’s something a bit different about the criticism this time.
If there’s the true hatred in there which I believe there is, it would make sense for a person who is normally extremely calculating in how they disguise it to lose a little of their control at a difficult time.
With much assistance from Ferguson, I believe those guys were indocrinated into thinking Arsenal under Wenger were a kind of insult to core British football values. Once you believe that, you believe you have rightness on your side, and it is relatively easy to justify using foul means to achieve a ‘good’ aim.
To the extent that to boot them was actually somehow not only in the service of trying to win a game of football but served some kind of good. To dive for a penalty the same, again serving the justifiable good. Twisted, moral-free, semi-moronic stuff, but my guess is that’s what they incubated brilliantly at Old Trafford.
I genuinely believe Neville doesn’t see, for instance, the help they got from Riley in game 50. He thinks they simply got stuck in, and we didn’t like it, because we became soft, which is of course un-British and wrong.
If that’s the case, then the indoctrination went bone deep, because of course Neville can easily recognise, in other circumstances, what’s a free-kick or a booking or terrible refereeing.
If he knew and understood what had happened on that day alone- i.e that Riley’s performance was so bad as to be unexplainable by normal means- he’d have to question pretty much everything.
He knows the team could not have played Arsenal that way with Collina, or even Ellery, in the middle. Knows those two were top refs. But doesn’t put those things together to conclude what they did, then and on other days, was massively helped by suspect refereeing.
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“Arsenal under Wenger were a kind of insult to core British football values”
We can understand why a former player from the evil cheating Mancs upon ManU’s PR broadcaster would buy into this rubbish,
but what excuse do the AAAA have?
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Just heard the phrase “it’s not the Man united way” twice on Talksport in 30 seconds just now in relation to why playing Fellaini up front might not be LvG’s greatest idea.
Apparently the united ‘way’ is defined as swashbuckling attacking football; if true it’s not something I’ve seen in those parts for a good few years.
Living in the past, muchly?
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I posted a comment this morning that i thought was one of the funniest I’d seen on arsenal web world in some time, but its already been beaten, by this
“Why doesnt AW bite the bullet and go back to Wolves and offer them 15mill for Afobe?? Or even 20mill.”
one thing both comments have in common, other than being laughable, is they are from the WOB. The person who made the comment above also made me laugh with this
“Kokorin
He is an unknown.
He is an international”
I always laugh at the “he is an unknown”, especially when said player has been a regular international for years, “he is an unknown” really means “I know nothing about him”, yet I’m not being arrogant when I say its the sort of signing Arrogant Wenger likes.
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I shall send you to live with Paul Scholes AA !
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Tim Stillman @Stillberto 4h4 hours ago
@AFC_GLEN @GeezyPeas @sjc1951 alas, our need doesn’t make the right player available.
of course the above tweet got the usual nonsense reply of
“every player has his price”
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Andy, we all know a good big ‘un, will beat an exceptional small ‘un?
It would seem to me. that Gary has been told by his employers, to be much more “forthcoming”.!
“Yes, Arsenal are struggling but sensible people should be defending Wenger now” 15 December 2012: By Gary Neville
“But for George Graham, someone who has a greater knowledge of Arsenal than I will ever have, to be quoted as saying they will never win the league again leaves me stunned.
Arsenal are on the right track. They run the club in a sensible way. When I go there, I watch good players, good football and you sense the history of the place. There is a drop in quality, especially in forward positions. They were the best attacking team I played against and, at the moment, they don’t have that ruthlessness and devastation”
Has Gary, lost his shirt and eaten his cap?.
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the dizzy goals challenge
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Victor Wanyama is out of Southampton’s game tonihgt with one of those transfer forcing stomach bugs
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Gedion Zelalem is making his Rangers debut tonight v Airdrie in the Scottish League Cup, and Dan Crowley starts for Barnsley v Everton in the third round of the Capital One Cup
Koscielny and Mertesacker didn’t train today, youngsters Reine-Adelaide, Kamara, Bennacer and Iwobi all trained with the first team
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Barnsley two up at HT
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Barnsley playing some good footy
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It’s mental at Oakwell
Crowley scores
3-2
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it seems zelalem has been outstanding for Rangers so far tonight. Rangers 3 up
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Two assists
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I would say that if Arsenal do not make at least one(I think it will take two) major signing in the next six days then there is going to be the biggest meltdown ever on the Arsenal web world, organised and promoted by the AAA and WOB, and that they will make home matches toxic, every poor result or poor display will increase their vitriol. A certain section of our players will get targeted more and more both on line and at games by this mob. Ramsey, Coqeulin, Ozil and Giroud will be the main targets, Walcott, Welbeck and Chambers also very likely targets.
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Extra time at Oakwell – tense times
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I would say Eddy that if Arsenal do not make one ( or possibly two) signings before the closure of the transfer window fuck all will happen.
In the real world of solid three dimensional objects, sentient beings, rational thought and mathematics.
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Admittedly I may be biased.
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i disagree anicoll, we have seen some of their efforts over recent seasons, and it has seen the pressure on the team at home games ramped up a number of times, but i notice several of these individuals and groups seem to have joined up this summer – joined up as in that they seem to be following the same game plan, or helping other out with said plan – one of the things in common is that all of a sudden several of the most rabid WOB have become ITK on transfers, all in an effort to get more and more peoples hopes up and then when deal is not done they have put all the blame on Wenger – dithering, changing his mind, not willing to meet the fee etc etc – the “no excuses” is their cover all soundbite, closely followed by “square pegs in round holes”. All designed to turn more and more fans against Wenger, the club and several of the players.
ArsenalFanTv be it willingly or unwittingly are feeding their fire, Helping to make some of them very high profile, giving credence to their views, the banner wankers, BSM, Arsenal Action and others seem to be working on the same AAA game plan. I think for many of them its got nothing to do with how well or poorly Arsenal are doing, but more about massaging their own inflated egos and self importance, in fact to use this weeks soundbite, its their “arrogance” that needs to be fed.
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You are entirely free to disagree with me eddy
And as you pay attention to these morons, click on to their websites, let me know what some half wit from Buck Futt, Indiana thinks about Arsene Wenger, Stan K or Aaron Ramsey, cut and paste their shite I can understand why you might.
But I don’t – and I have yet to see one shred of evidence that what the great unwashed think, positive or negative, matters a single jot to Arsenal Football Club.
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Clearly no offence meant to anyone from Indiana – other than Scarfists and fence sitters
Agony at Oskwell 3-5 !
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quote anicol
“But I don’t – and I have yet to see one shred of evidence that what the great unwashed think, positive or negative, matters a single jot to Arsenal Football Club.”
well I agree that Arsenal Football Club are smart enough to stick to their long term plans regardless of these noisy mob, and I do not for one minute think that any decision to sign or not sign players in the next week will have been influenced by anything other than the plans already in place at the club,
all I’m saying is that the game the AAA are playing and how it effects the atmosphere at home games is the problem, a negative atmosphere can only hinder the team, and do us damage, and this is what this lot want, they want Wenger out, they clearly want us to play the sugardaddy game, and they believe that if they make games at the Emirates toxic it will hinder results, and will eventually see Wenger leave, he will decide that its just not worth it. The AAA are playing the politics game of “No, No, No”, which is the easy game to play, it is the easiest way to gain support, you don’t have to have real substance to your argument, soundbites are all that is needed. Perception is all that matters. A toxic atmosphere at the Emirates will feed into the perception they are creating. this lot are actually smarter than they at first seem(which in truth is not difficult)
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a Rangers view on Zelalem’s debut tonight
http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2015/08/gedion-zelalem-debut-verdict.html?
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Positively Arsenal @Blackburngeorge 2h2 hours ago
You would think we were surrounded by hostile Indians waiting for the Cavalry to arrive with reinforcements.
we are george, the hostile indians are section of our won fan base.
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GN is bolux.
You’ll find that for every nice thing he says about Arsenal there’ll be 20 negative narrati-laden crap. I managed to get a few minutes into that MNF shite when he started talking about lightweights and put up a list of Ars players bought in a certain timeframe.
Top of the list was Reyes, WHO HE AND HIS SIBLING KICKED OUT OF ENGLAND!
Do I have to post the video? Again?
Tell you what,check out the loanees:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RDOZ0aKp_HI
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Re the great unwashed and the transfer window eddy
If you imagine that a signing, two signings, five signings will keep the Whiners and the Scarfists, the fence sitters and the Claudists quiet for more than 24 hours then I do not believe you know your fellow Arsenal fan as a species.
Unless we are a goal up at least in half and hour against Stoke the grumbling will start, the sighing, the tutting, the playing on the phone and heading for the half time cider early. Did you SEE the numbers streaming out on Monday with 10 minutes still to go?
They can’t help it – they have dysphoria aka a train to catch.
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so many seem to have forgotten we have danny welbck out injured… he was a striker last time we checked
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And he is due back after the international break according to latest reports TS – we have a run of weekend/midweek games so his return will be very welcome.
The CL draw at 4.45 today UK time – some interesting possibilities, in Pot 1 there are some dud teams as well as the top three, in Pot 4 there are some tasty sides, and Pot 3 looks comparatively weak.
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anicol what a signing or two does to that lot is take away much of their support, much of their audience, it takes the wind out of their sails for a while at least. It stops their narrative in its tracks. Of course it will not silence them for ever, or even for very long, but it is a set back for them.
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Pandering to the mob is like giving in to a toddler throwing a tantrum and refusing to eat their tea.
They need firm handling. Whiff of grapeshot. Cancel their season tickets.
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I’ve already stated that I do not think Arsenal will nor should they make any decision – signings or otherwise – to pander to the mob, what I’m saying is that if we make signings it will take the wind out of their sails, and if we don’t it will give them more silly but noisy followers and the Emirates at home games will become toxic.
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Ainsley Maitland-Niles and Tafari Moore have been called up by England u19
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