Last night I caused a bit of a kerfuffle on twitter when I posted this .
Positively Arsenal @Blackburngeorge ·
No doubt in my mind that I want Spurs to beat Chelsea, and beat them well.
Apparently this is unacceptable to the “Local club for local people, proper Arsenal” crew, and was interpreted to mean that I want Spurs to win. Well I don’t want them to win, I don’t want them to win anything, but I do want Chelsea to win less. Much as it irks us, one of them will win the COC, I would prefer that not to be Chelsea.
People who know me ,know that a big part of why I love Arsenal with such passion is down the the ethos and playing style of the the club. Chelsea are the polar opposite of what I respect and love about Arsenal, So yes, I want them to win less than Spurs. And I make no apologies for this.
Of course I understand that for many people who are “local fans” they would want Spurs to lose less. This doesn’t rile me. Its their choice. The reality is though , that I am not a local fan. I have never even met a Spurs fan, so how am I expect to get it?
What does rile me is that these people want to set the parameters for my support. I have to feel like them otherwise I am not a real Arsenal fan. They, the “local club for local people ,proper Arsenal” fans decide what good support is. Is it a coincidence that the ones that resorted to abuse towards me ,are for the most, the same fans who abuse me for my support of Arsene. The same ones who tell me I’m not a real fan because I back him ?
These people are insistent that to be a proper fan you must see Spurs as the biggest rival. Because its a local thing? Right? Yet they seem unable to grasp that local fans do not make up the vast majority of the fan base.
I know hundreds of United fans and not one single Spurs fan, so who am I ‘liable to see as the biggest rival? Who would you think I would want to beat more? Go on , hazard a wild guess !
Did you guess United?
You were right then. But according to these narrow minded halfwits, that means I cant be a real Arsenal supporter.
What is more worrying than anything is that these people can’t grasp it. We all must feel like them to be “proper Arsenal”
Now, there are many non-local fans that see Spurs as our biggest rivals. They may be old enough to remember when Spurs were actually rivals at all in football terms, or they may have simply bought into the traditional rivalry. That’s understandable to me. I get it. But seriously,does that make them better fans? Well it seems they think it does.
Are people from all over the globe expected to see Spurs are the biggest rivals? That’s Spurs, a mid table team that never finishes above Arsenal? Really? Why? Well I will tell you why, its because the “local club for local fan, proper Arsenal” feel they have the right to dictate how other should feel about their club. Because its their club, not our club, its theirs.
Ok I then tweeted these
Here is another bombshell. I dont hate the fans of any club. They are just doing what we do following the club of their choice >
>I dont really see the difference from hating a set of supporters to hating an ethnic group or people from another country.
More howls from the mentally challenged.
Again I make no apologies for this, hating people because they support another football team is tribalism.
Justifying hatred by calling it “football rivalry” is about as lame as it gets in my opinion.
Some people actually told me that I didn’t understand because I have never had a fight with a Spurs fan. They were scum.
What? Are they sub-human?
The notion that its ok to hate people because they are doing exactly what we are doing, supporting the club of their choice is a a notion that has led to all sorts of barbarity in the past.
The very idea that hatred for someone else makes you a better fan is so off its not true.
If you feel the necessity to hate in order to love, you really need to reevaluate your life and your support.
Perhaps start by moving into the 21st century?
Finally I tweeted
I am getting hate because I don’t hate random people I’ve never met, from random people I’ve never met. Seems reasonable.
Think about that for a moment. I think it tells me exactly the type of person we are dealing with here.
Positively Arsenal 
I’m with you, I hate Chelsea(and City) more than Tottenham.
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Fins, Frank was a foundling father too.
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I know a lot of utd and liverpool fans, a couple of tottnum fans and a couple of chelsea fans, I have a long term dislike for liverpool (having had to endure them in the 70’s and 80’s). I dislike Man Utd, I find tottnum mostly funny, and I will admit that I admired the football they played in the early 80’s. but I hate Chelsea, with a passion, they are everything that is wrong with modern football, they have a cunt of a manager, a totally dislikable guy, and a lot of their football is nothing more than a more costly stoke.
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Never a truer word spoken. Cue the howls of anger and hatred at me (a Spurs fan) for daring to set foot in a Gooner site but I don’t get the ‘local’ hatred thing either. Do Liverpool and Everton have it? I don’t think they do yet are there 2 more ‘local’ teams, with just a park inbetween the stadiums? If anything, the rivalry there is banter between families and bragging rights, not pure vile hatred, and that’s how it should be. You can’t even put it down to style of play. Like you, I couldn’t watch Chelski every week and would want them to lose to you every day of the week, I do despise them – and I think that is because they went from a yoyo club to a club winning everything due to money – which happens of course, but the sense of superiority that Chelski fans subsequently had which came with that is laughable, they were also-rans, in and out of the top division for years! But I have Chelsea supporting mates, what can you do?!
I’m a football fan, I like good football. That the Gooners play good football is unfortunate because it puts me in a similar dilemma where I too am supposed to hate you. It was easier when 1-0 victories were the root cause of the ‘boring boring’ jibes. And yes of course I don’t want you to win anything but it’s missing the point isn’t it! That’s just friendly rivalry, banter. I’ve got plenty of mates that follow loads of different teams. And family too. So my family should, say, boycott my sisters wedding to a West Ham fan for example? Utterly pathetic, juvenile and Neanderthal like.
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My wife’s a lifelong Spurs fan. Used to travel around the country with her dad in the 1960’s. On our first date I took her to Highbury on 27th December 1969 to watch a drab 0-0 against Newcastle. Not on the North Bank tho. Although I’ve not lost my passion for the Arsenal, I’m always happy to see Spurs do well, just for her sake. Am I an idiot, disloyal or just a reasonable human being?
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Well said. Chelsea and their manager encompass everything that is wrong in football. And if our fans turn a blind eye to that and insist Spurs should lose, how are they any different from the journos who forget all bad aspects of CFC and hail Mou for a victory. But these same fans criticize these journos for overlooking the moral aspects of the game. I would call it double standards, if not hypocrisy.
I would also like to ask them, who would they like to see lifting a trophy: Lloris or Terry? Pochettino or Mou. There is only one answer I feel.
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Haters are going to hate. Best way to view it in my opinion. Let them. Care not.
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I find your thinking is spot on, well done don’t let a few idiots put you off of your beliefs.
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Pity is a better word than hate. You are a tool if you really hate someone over a sport.
Tottenham give me almost as much pleasure as Arsenal do, when they go out of the FA Cup as we stride on, for example (or eat dodgy lasagne). So it is impossible to hate them, given the satisfaction they bring to Arsenal fans.
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I’m a “local”& I don’t give a monkeys a bout the spuds’who are they?delussions of grandeur,always in our shadow.so it’s a no brainier.HATE manure & chavs all day long!,,,,
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As a Spurs fan I agree. I dislike Chelski more than Arsenal. Mourinho is such a complete and utter moaning twat like the thuggish twats Terry, Cahill, Costa. They deserve everything they get (fines etc) and deserve more.
I have also found a growing dislike of West Ham (probably the racist overtones).
Man City I hate the way they flought FFP.
I would rather see a lot of teams beat Arsenal and for us to finish above you to stop you crowing about that.
I also find some of the Arsenal players irritating and classless, like Walcott, Wilshere, that idiot goalkeeper, with the way they try and ingratiate themselves with the fans.
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I left London many years ago for work and although I still have a season ticket my dislike of Spuds has decreased over time. This is in part due to location but also due to the fact that for decades I have not seen the Spuds as actual footballing rivals. Man U, Chelses and now Man City are teams I despise far more (and actually for far more valid reasons i.e. media influence, buying trophies, refereeing bias etc). On a related subject, I do get a bit bored with anti-Spuds songs at games (most noticably away games), which seem to form a large percentage of the songs. The main point for me though is whether the team actually find such songs ‘supportive’. Many of them are foreign nationals and probably care little about Spuds too. I wonder whether they would feel better supported if we sang pro-Arsenal songs rather than songs about another team in which the players had little interest. Just a thought.
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Sorry, but the League Cup doesn’t mean much to Chelski or me, the continuing disappointment and taunting of the pub team up the road takes precedence.
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Mike why has your dislike of spuds grown. I am sure wherever you live you can still get some lovely varieties. King Edwards are my favourites but Maris Piper are pretty decent as well. To turn up at a football match and sing anti spud songs seems a bit extreme. ‘Stand up, if you hate King Eds’; ‘can you hear the pipers sing?’ seems a bit daft. You’re right stick to pro-Arsenal songs or maybe anti broccoli or sprouts – they are horrible
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A good article highlighting the idiots and corruption in the modern game.
I am from North London and live there amongst , mainly Spurs & Arsenal fans along with the usual smattering of Utd & Chelsea.
As a Spurs fan i cannot hate my Arsenal supporting mates or any other team supporting friends.
Personally, I do not like Chelsea as they encapsulate the lack of even playing field the FFF rules were forced to combat. Spurs , Arsenal ,Liverpool & Utd do live in financial reality and are not bad losers ( unlike Chelsea ) . Though i have Chelsea fans who went to the Bridge every week before Siberian oil money corruption, so fair play to them .
Real fans do not hate each other as we live in a multi cultural world of different supporters who are proper fans. Rivalry is about banter & bragging rights not hatred. I love good sporting football and the fact that we no longer can no longer accuse Arsenal of boring football is a Spurs problem. I do not hate anyone but i do not especially like the way Chelsea conduct themselves but that is a personal preference ( not a hatred thing ) as i believe football should be played a certain way and Arsenal are honing in that very style that Spurs are trying desperately to create. So fair play to Arsenal who have philosophical stability to be emulated.
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I dislike Arsenal because I’m a Spurs supporter. I hate Chelsea and West Ham because I’m a human being.
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Great piece George, and you do have a lot of friends on Twitter.
The ‘hate’ malarkey may have a bit to do with age and how people look at the world and express themselves at different times in their lives. Did you get any sense of the age of the alleged “real Arsenal” abusers?
In my 20s I was full of strong emotions, strong opinions, intractable views including hate. I’d be the at the fence singing “Whose that dying on the runway?” with the best of them. A trip to Trafford Park or Elland Road or to wander innocently down Tottenham High Road was to take your life in your hands, or just about.
Time passes and what what seemed so important then certainly does not seem so important now. I may have lost a little as a result of growing older, but I have gained a degree of perspective. No time to waste time on hating other teams when there is football to be enjoyed.
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PG
I question the necessity to address this issue at all. You have responded to a number of individuals who probably live in a small ‘north London bubble’ and therefore have a limited world view. They are probably not moved or proud of Arsenal’s global appeal and massively growing international support. Unfortunately, they may express little interest in very much at all. I learnt to ignore such folk, it’s like flogging a dead horse.
As you know I grew up 3 miles from Highbury/Ashburton Grove. A slight majority of my school pals were/are Spuds. This ratio was probably true throughout my secondary school. We conformed to the rivalries the numbskulls claim are the marker of a true Gooner/Spud – but it was all fun at the end of the day. It is no indication of who is a true fan. One of the most rewarding experiences of my life to date was exchanging joyful comments after our FAncup win with Gooners in the Peruvian Andes!
So, whilst I maintained a sense of decorum so far in my response my advice for you is FUCK ‘EM!
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I think its telling that there are Spurs fans that I am happy to approve on this site and Arsenal fans that make me sick, and I dont approve. Who are the scum I ask myself?
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AND ANOTHER THING…..
I really enjoy watching Spurs…..I think they are a very good team and I look forward to watching them when they are on TV…..
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The other football related point is the claim by Spuds fans that they are our ‘local rivals” ?
“Local” I grant you, not that far away but “rivals” ?
Now from the 60s to the 80s it would be fair to say that we and Spuds had just about similar records, a Double each but mainly known as “good Cup teams” able to turn it on for a big occassion but not able to cope with the demands of competing in the First Division.
Since 1989 though, and I think barring only one season, we have been far superior to them in results on the field, position in the League, PL titles, cup trophies, Euro qualification etc. 25 years, a whole generation.
So how can I seriously think of Spuds as “rivals” ?
Still their fans troop down to the Lane every August thinking ” this is it, our season” – and by October it is all over, again.
And how therefore are they our rivals, how could I possibly “hate” what I feel pity for ?
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I have to say as someone born in Tottenham and having supported Spurs for 60 years that I do NOT hate Arsenal (or any other team for that matter). Do I like it when Spurs beat Arsenal – of course. As much as when we beat United, Chelsea, Liverpool., etc, etc.
But HATE? That is such a strong emotion and deserves no place in the game.
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Don’t know who I want to win the CO Cup final.
Probably want extra time with several cruciate ligament injuries, a couple of 3 match suspensions and both manager sent to the stands prior to a lengthy touchline ban.
Whoever wins I want it to be via a handball and offside in extra time that the referee and linesman missed, and whoever loses I want them to have two good goals struck off due to refereeing howlers. That way the winners can’t properly enjoy the victory with the media indignation about cheating and the losers feel even more gutted about the injustice than they would about just losing a final.
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It works the other way too ….. i’d rather you guys won than Chelsea …. but i also would rather neither of you won nothing at all. I can at least appreciate the good football you play, the hatred is location based and local rivalry, I have always had a deep laying hatred of Chelsea and West Ham much more than Arse*al.
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Confession: Anything that’s bad news for the spuds is good news for me. BUT which team would you least like to see relegated? For me that’s the spuds. How empty would a season be without our real derby home and away? Man U, City, Chelsea, Stoke, I’d not miss at all but the spuds? When they did go down for a season in the 70s so much of the fun went.
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There is nothing more enjoyable than a Spuds side flirting with relegation Gf – marvellous
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money has muddied the water here, of course we should hate the spuds they have been our rivals for over a hundred years whereas chelski have only been our rivals for a couple.
I hate the club, their sponsers and even their fans….. well as a group as an idea but in reality its only because thats my job as an ARSENAL fan.
I get on really well with lots of spuds and would do all I could for some of them. I am related to lots of them and 99% of local gooners are in the same boat so if they say they hate all spuds their probably lying.
It sounds to me like there are certain people who have found a stick to beat you with George but like I say its just a duty not a reality.
I cant see any gooner saying they like mareen better than potch and gary mabbert always seems a really nice bloke but jt is scum,trailor trash of the highset order.
Our hatred of the lillywhites has been tempered over the years firstly because we are a much bigger club than them now, secoundly because we dont fight with them every game and they dont have thousands of skinheads running through our stadium any more.
Hate is often fuelled by jellously or high amounts of banter which can turn nasty however we have had nothing to be jellous of for years and really what could a spurs fan say to wind you up lately, nothing Arsene has seen to that and made sure our nothing are anything but noisey. You would think these people who berate you George might realise that.
I have said before I am not a righteous man and I do hate people especially in the game I love but with the small club from middlesex its just a part of being red and white and not personal
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People that wish for crucial ligament injuries on any players are just idiots.
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I posted that before I read all the comments above, I think Ricky couple of lines is what I meant without being as longwinded as I was.
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the only fans that I have personally come across that I can say I detest is West Ham fans, and it goes back to 2 incidents in the George Graham era,
the first one was at a reserve game at Highbury the day before the Littlewoods cup final 1987, and it disgusted me to see and hear a group of West Ham fans racially abuse their own black players. It was my first time to witness racism, and I found it even more shocking to see them do it to their own clubs players.
the second incident was I think at Christmas 1987, when travelling back from Wimbledon v Arsenal at Plough Lane, myself and a few other Gooners were entering a tube station and a guy coming out said to hide your colors, as there are West Ham fans in there, the guys I was with were all London based and they said the hammers fans should not have been at that particular tube station, and we all hide our colors and broke up into two smaller groups so at not to show we were coming from football. We passed the hammer fans with no bothers, but we found out as we came out of another tube station, that a 12 year old Arsenal fan had been stabbed to death by West Ham fans at the other tube station. There had been no row or even words, they just stabbed him to death as he and his father passed by them on an escalator.
so for me West Ham fans are a nasty lot. Now of course I know there are cunts in all fan bases, and indeed Chelsea fans are said to be some of the worst for trouble etc, but I am only going on personal experience.
I was at a Tottnum v Arsenal at shite hart lane, and although some of their fans had lots to say, the only cunts on display were the cops who done all they could to rile Gooners, but as we had won 2-1 very few fell for their baiting.
I come from Ireland and the biggest sports is GAA, and there are major local rivalries but fans inter mingle before, during and after games, usually without any trouble at all, and the strange thing is that I know some guys who go to GAA without ever causing bother, but when they go to soccer games they get in fights etc, I really don’t understand it at all.
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Team news for Sunday, Wenger: Wilshere, Welbeck and Arteta? “Jack should join in normal training in 10 days. Welbeck on Monday. Arteta a bit longer.”
Wenger also said Alexis is a doubt with a hamstring injury, likely to be rested, Gabriel should be ok to play”
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Mmmm…4 red cards to each team, a brawl on the pitch…aww heck…how about a meteor hitting Wembley…just a small one, mind, not enough to hurt any blind people, dogs, or local birds, just big enough to, you know, send the whole stadium full of Chavs and Spuds flying into the Thames…where they can’t swim… 😉
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more like going, going, gone gooner for that last post.
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Very nice to see comments from Spurs fans. I enjoy it immensely when we beat them and the matches against them always extremely entertaining with both sides abandoning any sort of restraint. However, I would reluctantly say that Spurs anyday over Chelsea and that man.
I am unsure on how to feel towards fans of Manure, Barelona, City, Chelsea in my city as I see them as just glory hunters and I especially want Chelsea & City fans to know how they are supporting murderers, men who ensalve other men and mob money. It is also not my place to tell them they cannot support some club. If only I could convert everyone into Arsenal fans! Make them see the club through our loving eyes!
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Also, George, I want to thank you for setting up this place on the internet for people like us. I want to commend how you and others here stayed true to supporting the club through its best and worst over the past couple of years. I see both this blog and our club rising up over the next couple of years. Happy to be a part of both.
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@anicoll
Flirting is great…but for them, going all the way is not pleasant!
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On a trip to North London in 2007 to meet the Arsenal supporting family of my girlfriend at the time I had the pleasure of meeting many lovely Tottenham fans as well. Can’t say a bad word about the ones I met and would gladly watch Spurs win something at the expense of my most hated team in the world of sport Chelski.
Legendary shoegaze band Ride (who I am greatly looking forward to seeing this summer were all Tottenham fans. How could I hate them? Had the pleasure of meeting and talking Arsenal/ Spurs with Simon Raymonde (of Cocteau Twins fame) who is a proper Spur as well. What a gentleman. Talking with such nice folks gave me a nice primer on the rivalry and it has grown into a respect for Tottenham. Tell me you wouldn’t have Lloris? What a player. When it comes time to Arsenal v Spurs though don’t get me wrong I’ve got my eye on one thing and one thing only three points. Dont care if it’s boring and we had 20% possession.
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Not sure about the Ride comment – have met Mark Gardener a couple of times and spoken to him about football, he’s a season ticket holder for Oxford where he grew up. Must be gutted now they’re complete shite eh!
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Can we change the name to Positively Arsenal and Spurs? George I’ve never known you provoke a love in across the great divide with one of your posts so well done for that.
I’m from the West Country and chose Arsenal at random as a 7 year old so no I have no reason to hate Spurs. Bristol City on the other hand….
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Thanks for that, Graeme. I thoughy they were all Spurs and remember hearing loads of shoegazers were Tottenham supporters. I remember even hearing the late drummer of Lush Chris Ackland whom I believe was from Lancashire was a Spur.
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“Arsenal Football club represent the best in English Football”
John Gregory
Former manager, player and Tottenham fan. He’s not the only Tottenham fan who’s said that to me.
The funny thing is he said the above upon an Arsenal podcast that is usually unlistenable due the incessant and irrelevant bleating and groaning. The hosts were silent after that statement which speaks volumes to me*
Like going going gooner I wouldn’t complain if a meteor hit Wembley Stadium. The presence of one of the Gazprom franchise teams/clubs (Schalke, Zenit etc.) would not be required.
I thank the football gods for the top top Mean Lean and his AV podcast, something decent to listen to after Ronan realised he had to study/work/live etc.!
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George,
I was a bit worried as to where the Post was going, and then you clarified exactly what you were getting at; – “Here is another bombshell. I dont hate the fans of any club. They are just doing what we do following the club of their choice.”
Spot on.
I am not a local either, for obvious reasons, but my support for Arsenal is absolute and I enjoy football, and blogging [most of the time] so marrying up ‘enjoyment’ with ‘hatred’ simply defies logic, to me.
What about families with split loyalties, some supporting the Arsenal and the others supporting the Spuds. Do they each ‘hate’ other family members, their mum’s or dad’ or brothers etc, as defined by their support for a rival club?
Sadly, you will never convince those who simply ‘enjoy’ the hatred.
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< He’s not the only Tottenham fan who I have heard express such sentiment…
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There’s only two teams I’ve felt an intense dislike for – this current Chelsea side, and Man Utd at the peak of our rivalry. Actually make that three, Pulis’ Stoke were another loathsome side. I can understand why some might have strong anti-Spurs feelings but as someone who didn’t grow up among lots of their fans and am yet to see a Spurs team more successful than ours in my Arsenal supporting life, I don’t have any real reason to ‘hate’ them. And as a grown man I don’t feel compelled to pretend to hate them in order to fit in, either.
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talking of stupid ignorant fans
Ræý Brádléy. @CFCRantsss · 1h 1 hour ago
No disrespect but if Cuadrado really is gay fucking cancel the deal asap. Don’t want any gay ass faggot at my club
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Stan Collymore @StanCollymore · 51m 51 minutes ago
So you dig out diving @GNev2 from what ever seen yet you don’t mind a player leaving two potential leg breakers on a fellow pro?
Stan Collymore @StanCollymore · 49m 49 minutes ago
The bullshit factory is saying“how can we tell Costa did him” @GNev2 . You e played a lot of games, you know. He did him. Twice.
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Luton however, now there is a totally different thing – a unique pit of evil
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its being reported that Jose is refusing to do a press conference for the Man City game, he is sulking over Costa getting charged.
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Tim Stillman @Stillberto · 2h 2 hours ago
Phil Neville not a fan of the no look pass. Brother Gary seems to have issues with the ‘no look stamp’ too.
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i dont hate spuds and i dont like them as either. between them and chelski, i prefare them. i have no spuds friends but have many friends who are chelski fans. that even isnt the reason i dont like them. for me maureen makes it difficult for me to stand them. even while he was in italy and spain he was still poking his nose where it didnt belong. he is obsessed about arsenal and arsene. i even celebrated rvp’s goal against them. yes i celebrated the traitor’s scoring a goal, thanks to maureen and chelski. as you can guess, i’ll celebrate it if shity can beat them on saturday.
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