A post by @Swales1968
How many of the fifty five thousand Arsenal supporters that will be at the Emirates to watch the opening game of the season against Crystal Palace could be called “loyal supporters”? How many would turn up if Arsenal were in the position that West Ham or Aston Villa find themselves in season after season. Their main objective is to avoid relegation, a good cup run will treated as a second team try out and a hindrance at the expense of three points on a Saturday
So how many supporters would there be?
I started going to watch Arsenal in 1976. Attendances were good then at around thirty thousand, if memory serves me right. (If this figure is incorrect I am sorry)
In the early nineteen eighties regularly, there would be figures of sixteen to twenty thousand. On one snowy night just over fourteen thousand turned up. Yes the standard of football was poor, we were cheering when an Arsenal player had a shot, it didn’t matter that it missed, someone had a shot.
It was the period just after “Chippy Brady” went to Italy, and if you think the Dutch skunk RVP’s move to Manure was bad, it was no where near as bad as Frank Stapleton’s move in the same direction. This was the start of the bad feeling between the two clubs, reports at the time said that at the following Arsenal V Manure game at Highbury that the Arsenal board refused the normal hospitality given to opposition boards. I think this was just hearsay because the one thing that Arsenal have always been good at is to rise above such petty things (personally though, I would love to know it was true)
Anyway, I digress. Attendances? How many of those fifty five thousand would have turned up thirty years ago. Nowhere near the fifty-five to sixty thousand Arsenal get today. Expectations were lower, could Arsenal have a good cup run, could Arsenal qualify for the EUFA cup? Win the league; you’re having a laugh, not the league. It was the same level of expectation that a Spurs supporter has now.
Would the Arsenal fans standing on the old NorthBank and ClockEnd get at the players the way Eboue and Ramsey were got at by fans? NO, we laughed, please don’t get me wrong, we wanted to win, we wanted the best players. We were even happy for a game or two when Lee Chapman signed. (And for all those who think Wenger has signed the worst duds they really need to look up Mr Chapman’s career at Arsenal)
Of today’s supporters and their expectation from Arsenal, I think maybe ten to twenty thousand would be bothered to turn up if Arsenal were in the same situation as Aston Villa or West Ham. There would be more attending than fifteen thousand attending as younger fans that have no chance of getting tickets today would be able to attend.
The atmosphere would be better as these younger voices would get behind the team. The people attending would be going because they love “The Arsenal” and will go whatever position the club find themselves in.
The signs were there a couple of seasons back, attendance figures stopped being read out at the matches, people stopped attending matches even though they had already paid for their tickets and this was in a season when Arsenal finished forth(again)
This is what Arsene Wenger has done to the majority of the supporters, he has raised expectations. He has moved the club forward, a huge leap forward. And today’s supporters expect trophies, demand trophies, forth is seen as a failure without a trophy. That’s why I believe only around ten to fifteen thousand out of the fifty five thousand would be bothered to attend if Arsenal were in the same situation as Aston Villa. Fans only seem to be loyal if a trophy is on its way.
Yes, Yes, Yes, what about the eight seasons without a trophy, I can see the replies now. Look at my inbox hundreds of replies from fans saying “I stayed loyal during this period; I paid for my season ticket which went up when Arsenal wasn’t winning anything. It was a disgrace that it took that long to win something”.
During the eight seasons without winning a trophy, Arsenal have been playing Champions League Football, finished in the top four every season, they have not been relegated like West Ham they have not struggled season after season like Aston Villa have done on a very regular basis.
In the early eighties the fans’ expectations were a cup run and/or qualify for the lowest ranked European competition the EUFA cup. Clubs like Aston Villa or West Ham don’t even have these expectations in today’s league; their only aim is SURVIVAL
Under Wenger Arsenal have won trophies, qualified regularly for the Champions League and are now after a period of belt tightening and careful spending are spending again.
So the question I am asking is: –
WOULD YOU GO TO WATCH ARSENAL IF SURVIVAL WAS THE ONLY TARGET?
Positively Arsenal 
or …who the fuck is chambers to command 11m with potential rise to 16m ? how much did we pay for cazorla again ? ( euro + wc winner)
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and besides…hammettfhh will play his football in spain ..we wont have to deal with thim…its scarier to think of that fucking united getting vidal..i think ill cry if that happens.
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but hopefully its another toni kroos…hehe
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I agree with that kid, Fin. A lot more teams will begin using that 3-4-2-1 Holland and others used at the world cup. And to think Pulis used that formation to great effect last season.
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Yup. It’s a very good reason to keep Tommy V away from the evil cheatin’ Mancs.
That and the greater odds that Koscielny and Mertesacker will pick up the odd knock in this post WC season.
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What makes James a good footballer and how come he was unknown until Sideshow Bob put his sweaty arm pit on his shoulder?
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Gains. Monaca payed over £40 million for him and he was on £200k pw. He was anything but unknown.
He is a great player. He really is.
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what makes him a good footballer? the fact he can pull off what he has in his mind …and that he can do it at the highest of levels. what else do you need?……
do you really think jack is better? i wouldnt even put jack as an equal to hammetfh at this momment in time let alone better….
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i really dont get these criteria…maybe im missing something …..hummels and luiz donkeys…? hammettfhh overhyped /overpriced? when you have english players who have done nothing in the game getting more hype than their talents or achievements suggest.
luiz was the pillar that kept chelsea’s defence intact for a cl and europa double…..and as a defender he can ‘talk’ to the ball and not just abuse it…..he can dribble out of situations, can bring ball forward, can attack , can play midfield…… his versatility is obvious to see.
hummels again is the defender and captain klopp has chosen to organise the team at the back and have won the bundesliga twice with him and appeared in finals and semis, and now a world cup winner being instrumental in organising and scoring too if need be. in a team of world class talent and he is seen as one of their leaders.
i dont understand how you can dismiss all this and call them donkeys ..lol….and favour some guy whose limitations were obvious from here to the moon just cause he played for us…..4th choice dont forget…luhzny and stepanovs and cygan have also played for us….they were diabolical….
djourou had mesi in his pocket? lol….. it was konscielny that was the one who bossed mesi in the famous 2nd half of the 2-1 victory…it was kosncielny chasing him back and stealing ball
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James cost twenty million more than Ozil and almost thirty million more than Alexis, for fuck’s sake. We’re talking about players who had already proven themselves in La Liga, the Champions League and in international competitions. I don’t doubt James is a talent, but he’s never played in a decent league nor has done something of note in the Champions League. Until he has proven himself at the highest level, he’ll remain nothing more than a hyped player.
Luiz was not a pillar of any defense. Rafa Benitez moved him into the midfield and he stayed there until he left for PSG. Why do you argue so much when you don’t even get that simple fact straight? He was such a shit defender that Rafa got him out of the middle of the defence and he never played there again for the rest of his Chelsea career.
If you have watched Hummels as often as I have, you’d know that he’s good for one mind numbing mistake per half, per game. The guy has zero pace and is dodgy on the tackle. Where he is good, and I’ll give him credit for this, is his positioning. The guy knows how to anticipate an attack. All this being said, I still think he lags far behind defenders like Koscielny, Garay, Kompany, Ivanovic and Godin.
I like how you blow smoke up James’s arse because he had a good world cup, but you shit on Djourou who had as good a world cup as any top defender. If you don’t think Djourou had Messi in his pocket, watch the Argentina v Switzerland game again.
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George, James might have not been an unknown, but he was not talked about in the same breath as many of the top players in Europe.
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But he was talked about a lot more than Jack.And he was considered truly World Class.
I’d swap for Jack in a heartbeat.
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Hunter,
I agree with Gains on our former Swiss CB, he was never a stellar talent but he gave his all, especially for his country – ranked far higher than ‘Ingerlung by the way, he actually did have Messi in his pocket. Koscielney would have been impressed.
Yes I am a bit biased, Johann has been a loyal gunner and deserved a bit more appreciation from the unwashed. I wish him well at Hamburg
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James has the potential to be the next superstar of our sport, he could be that good.
He has chosen the club with the global platform to showcase his talent, provided the rest of the mega Egos in that mad house accept him into the fold.
Not fair to compare him to Jack, who
Played deeper and still Has to Recover from his string of injuries caused by a bunch of bastards in the bPL, stars in other leagues in Europe don’t have to put up with that shit.
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Hunter,
Seriously – I think it’s only you who has ever thought that any of the rest of us have ever put Sideshow Bob on any kind of pedestal.
Half decent at CB when playing beside someone better, and I think he would be better suited to moving to midfield. The sport is in desperate need of ‘characters’ and he has studiously developed his own unique image, excepting Kelsey Gramer’s work of course.
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The problem with Sideshow Bob was explained to me by my pal Fishey Mick who is Chelsea and has studied the hairy Brazilian, so to speak.
Luiz is a decent and at times good centre back who, unfortunately for him and for his team, thinks he is also a talented footballer and midfield player.
He is wrong as has been proven in game after game. Despite this he still hurtles forward, caution to the wind, with predictable catastrophe following in his wake.
Fishey is pleased with the €50 million though – very fair price he thought
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Until he has proven himself at the highest level, he’ll remain nothing more than a hyped player
has jack or djourou proved themselves at the highest level? …
or is the world cup not a high enough level (for hammettffhh’s case)
why do i argue so much? lol …..why are you taking it so negatively? …just talking mate…
rafa won the europa and the versatility of luiz proved crucial….a year earlier when rafa wasnt there it was luiz with several world class performances that aided chelsea to their success. besides like ive told you plenty of times…noone called him a beckenbauer but saying djourou is on another level insults my intelligence….
If you have watched Hummels as often as I have, you’d know that he’s good for one mind numbing mistake per half, per game.
oh so per and kons never make mistakes then do they? …… furthermore please dont use expressions like ‘as often as i have’ to show off some sort of superior football knowledge cause im the last to buy it…… your ‘eyes’ place djourou on another level than these two big footballers……so forgive me for not taking your ‘football knowledge’ for granted…..
“Where he is good, and I’ll give him credit for this, is his positioning. The guy knows how to anticipate an attack.”
Ehhhhmmm …is that not the numero uno attribute for a defender…reading game and anticipation….unless you want bruisers as defenders in which case you will focus on tackling and hardmanship….right? ….
djourou does not anticipate attacks..cant say he reads the game like a libero, ccant say he tackles like a beast…so what is he good at then for you to place him above defenders who have left their mark on the game ?
i dont shit on anyone …i shit on the perception that you can call djourou better than them two just like i shit on the perception that “we” wouldnt have suarez cause he is a “racist diving cheating” whatever……
i suppose ignorance is strength…..so go have a read and find out who luis suarez is , what he has had to go through to get where he is and lets see if you would allow any obstacles to your ambitions, family and loved ones…. evra and the f.a comittee ADMITTED on record that suarez was not a racist…but dont let that fact cloud yours or others predetermined opinion on him…..
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and gains ..respectfully…it is your opinion on djourou vs luiz+hummels that i am asking for clarifications …
but you dont like that and you call it “shitting on arsenal players”
dont throw the ball on another court…
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double canister July 30, 2014 at 6:50 pm
but dc this is not about who gives his all…… but who is overall the better footballer.
as for jack and hemmetffhh …i never started any comparisons…all i did is answer back to a suggestion that he is overhyped in relation to say…jack
Hunter,
Seriously – I think it’s only you who has ever thought that any of the rest of us have ever put Sideshow Bob on any kind of pedestal
pedestal? no its just very weird to read that hummels and luiz are donkeys and that a player like djourou who has done absolutely nothing and plays for hannover wherever is on another level …it is crazy.
if united manage and get hummels and vermaelen ……things dont look so good…them cunts will have a proper defensive duo there, when in fact they should still be with moyes so that he relegates them…finally…bastards got away with it again…my only hope is for madgaal to take him more than 6 mos to re-mode united and the fans plus board losing patience…..
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http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/jan/01/fa-report-luis-suarez-patrice-evra
THREE times evra admits to starting/initiating the trashtalking…besides do you all remember his behaviour in that match…provoking? kissing badges?..etc …was he looking for a fight?…
and plenty of times where evra admits is saying things that have a different meaning…..compare that to the furiore with suarez for using a term which in his continet also has a different meaning to the one the papers accused him for….
“It is key to note that Patrice Evra himself in his written statement in this case said ‘I don’t think that Luis Suarez is racist’. The FA in their opening remarks accepted that Luis Suarez was not racist.” http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/12/suarez-is-not-a-racist/
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George: “But he was talked about a lot more than Jack.And he was considered truly World Class. I’d swap for Jack in a heartbeat.”
Who talked about him? I read a lot of European football press and he wasn’t on anyone’s radar until the world cup.
You’d swap him for Jack? I’ll remember this, George.
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anicol: He is wrong as has been proven in game after game. Despite this he still hurtles forward, caution to the wind, with predictable catastrophe following in his wake.
ok granted but you probably see that as a weakness…then some managers see it as a strength….and are willing to pay lots of money for it.
who is right who is wrong?
however and regardless of what others are willing to pay for him…a player who wins the league title and gets voted mvp of the year in that country and then goes on to win c.l and europa and command 25+m in transfer fees is not a lesser player than 4th choice loaned out players in hannover….
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You’d swap him for Jack? I’ll remember this, George
yeah why not after all madrid are our feeder club…ozil khedira casilas and next year we will give them jack for the moderate price of 105m after one great season with us and take hammmettfhh instead… everyone wins ..hehe
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gains on another note..have you heard about wenger intending to switch jack to the deep lying ..almost defensive mid…role? I happen to believe that if anyone can make a mascherano/de rossi out of jack thats only arsene but do you think jack has the discipline and humility/desire in him to accept and give it his all?
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Jack and Djourou have played against the very best players in the game. James Rodriguez has only played one Champions League game throughout his career and has never played in a top league. I think it’s safe to say he’s unproven.
David Luiz’s versatility is a nice way to say he was shit at CB and had to be moved up the pitch by Rafa and every manager after him. As far as Djourou is concerned, he was the main man in the Swiss defence and his team didn’t get clobbered by Argentina 7-1.
Koscielny and Mertesacker don’t make as many basic mistakes as Hummels. Again, if you had watched Hummels as much as I have, you’d know why so many people aren’t completely sold by him.
No, reading the game is one attribute out of many a defender must possess. He’s good at reading the game, but he still gets blown away due to his lack of pace.
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I like Jack as close as possible to the opposition penalty area. To me, he’s a number 10.
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Ha you use again an isolated game like that to judge? Have asked you many times but you dont answer…..which goals were his fault then? …. since we are picking on individual momments lets take it all the way…..non?
And the logic of – since switzerland didnt get clobbered 7-1 = djourou is better than luiz – is something i struggle to comprehend. Can someone else help? Im guessing that if i stoop to this kindergarten level of logic and tell you djourou was main man of defence in the 8-2 (tested against the best?) you shall twist it into ‘shitting on players’…….how fair of you?
How many times youve seen Hummels play is irrelevant. i can watch him play three times and understand something which might take someone else 30 times to understand or vice versa…but lets not go there…i asked you before to stop “parading” your superior knowledge…im not buying
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That’s the point about Luiz Gains
He may think he is a versatile player
Luiz may have persuaded managers he was a more versatile footballer
And could play in midfield
Trouble is his best position is centre back – admittedly if he tries to perform as a centre back with no discipline then Luiz is marked down as rubbish
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a ten ? i dont know…ten like zidanne? bergkamp? kaka? absolutely not. ten like moutinho modric sneijder? hmmm perhaps
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http://www.itv.com/sport/football/article/2014-07-30/arsenal-have-lost-a-high-court-battle-over-a-curb-on-the-number-of-concerts-that-can-be-held-at-the-emirates-stadium/
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The Arsenal were a pretty good side up to January last year, and many have put this down to Ramsey and Ozil. While they are right to do this, I think it is also reasonable to say that during that period Jack was very influential too. I am not a tactician nor do I have the time to analyse every match during that time, but I have a hunch that Jack is much more important to the way the side plays than he is given credit for. We will know soon for we will see the way AW uses him – or doesn’t, as may be the case.
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A genuine question now, prompted by a good piece by Adrian Clarke about Vermaelen. Might it be possible that a pairing of Chambers and Vermaelen is every bit as strong as Mertesacker and Koscielny?
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I intend to hold fire a bit on Chambers until I see a bit more of him TH. While I watched Saints games last season live and on the box I never really focussed on him or saw what he did best (or worst)
The general point though is whether our present ‘first choice’ centre back pairing of Kosc and Per could be open to a change if Chambers and Tommy V played together, and did well.
It is a bit of a horse and cart question in as much as if they don’t get the chance to play together in PL and CL games then we will never know. I suspect the first item on Arsene’s agenda this season will be to get Debuchy working smoothly with Kosc and Per rather than swapping the centre backs about.
If they do however get the chance then Tommy is a very good footballer who I have no qualms about playing. He is a much quicker player than Per. He is an ‘attacking’ defender. Against a certain type of attack then a different combination at the back might well suit our plans better.
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“Against a certain type of attack then a different combination at the back might well suit our plans better.”
I believe that this was always the plan. Vermealan’s long lay off through injury and the gradual recovery of stamina and form removed the option for a time.
There was that game Away in the kingdom of Abu Dhabi when that crazy old coot Vengarrrr dropped Mertesacker and the melt down followed. Per was in good form, and he has only been rested when fatigued since that day whilst Tommy came into that game when he was devoid of form and confidence. However contrary to the (lack of) wisdom shown by those who have wanted to sell the player we saw last season that a fit and hungry Vermaelan can still do the business when required. That German manager Jogi made the same call into the WC, but Wenger got in there first I’m afraid to say. There must be a consideration that sometimes some teams will have the personal to target the gap between the RB and the BFG. I’ve never thought of Remy as a top player, primarily because in the three or five encounters we have seen with Mertesacker he has been out thought at every turn by the gentle giant. In those moments when he did manage to use his speed, Sagna or another colleague were on hand to dull his threat. Some teams will have three or four players in their attack with similar attributes and it’s possible for those games that you might want to consider a little bit of rotation, although I am happy to admit I haven’t a clue what I talking about. Mertesacker will not play every game in the league this post WC season, he’ll need some rest at times.
I’d like to have seen people groaning at that Bony header during Swansea’s visit last season try and out jump the player. Wilfred may not have Sanchez’s silky skills but he can jump and head the ball (like a good Carroll, as in someone who can play football and didn’t cost £30M *coughs*). Sometimes the opposition score good goals!
In my lifetime all good Arsenal teams have had three good, and different, CBs.
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In regard to chambers I’m holding fire too. From the tiny (arsenal player and 2 clips from youtube) amount that I’ve seen he looks intense. That can’t be bad.
I have spoken to a Southampton fan just before we announced the deal. He told me that Chambers came through with a number of other players but he was “not made of the right stuff”. I’m pretty sure this is sour grapes, he did speak well of other recent departures though.
For me though if Wenger has signed him, then he’s going to be good. I’m watching with a lot of interest. I just hope there’s room for Jenkinson cos he’s my special boy. One of these lads is surely destined to play in the centre of defence.
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The partnership of Verm and Chambers would be nice to see. I wonder if they could be given a cup run? That way they are given the platform to really push Kos and Merty. Too much is made of Mertersackers speed for me. He’s not the only decent centreback in the world without pace. Ferdinand has been succesful for a number of seasons without having ‘legs’. This is when the team element of the sport comes in for goodness sakes.
I’m in no rush to see either of the current first choices displaced. I think that the 3 destructions of last season were not the fault of 1 or even 2 players. It’s great to have Tommy as he is a real quality player. Perhaps he’s being appeased with the promise of a cup run and confidence in his own ability. I think he’ll stay.
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Anyone know where I can watch the full NY Redbulls game? I still haven’t seen it yet.
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Gainsbourg69
July 30, 2014 at 8:16 pm.
I get you sentiments on over-rated players it happens all too much but I can’t agree about Hummels.
“Koscielny and Mertesacker don’t make as many basic mistakes as Hummels. Again, if you had watched Hummels as much as I have, you’d know why so many people aren’t completely sold by him.”
First of all there’s no such thing as a defender that doesn’t make mistakes. Koscielny gives away too many penalties and Merty can be, well clumsy at times. Occassionally getting his legs tangled in amongst various limbs all over the pitch. Saying that I love them both. It’s the best pairing we’ve had since Adams and Keown. Hummels makes mistakes, mainly distribution and the odd slip of concentration. However last season he didn’t have Subotic. Am I right in thinking he would be first choice? I think that Subotic does a lot more that the Greek bloke and allows Hummels more time.
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Els,
Highlights up on the Arsenal site but I don’t know about the full game.
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I don’t know much but I like the look of Miquel and Hayden. Still very young for CBs, even under AW. Gr*tty and direct variation from the La Masia graduate as he released Akpom for that one on one in the second half.
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In other news I am still dreaming of the day when Sanchez, Walcott and Chamberlain all take the field, Campbell too. You could squeeze Özil, Ramsey and maybe one of Cazorla or Rosicky into that XI too.
*drools*
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Thanks Fins. Yeah i’ve seen the highlights. About 12 mins. They usually do the match in 2 halves but it’s not on. I think ESPN got the rights perhaps that means we don’t get it on player. Seems odd.
Yeah I like Miquel and Haydens. I think Miquel may have missed the boat though. We’ve tried him a few times now but he’s not done much. Supposedly had a mare at Leicester but I didn’t see any of it. Hayden has a lot of hype too. I do like him but isn’t he after playing in midfield? Akpom looks to be going for this pre-season. Some lovely little turns and burst of pace against Boreham. We’ve got some awesome youth. This Willock kid seems to be getting a lot of attention. He’s come from nowhere. I guess that happens when your 16 though.
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sorry just got to share this :
Make your first touch count with tips from Swansea and England under-21s midfield maestro, Jonjo Shelvey
“Take a ball, stand in the garden, kick it as high as you can and try and control it without letting it bounce. That always helped me.”
maestro of the universe
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Dear Dennis! That lineup will have me at half mast.
For me though it’s Ramsey all the way. One of the best in the world last season. Surely.
I’d play Özil left so we could get Ramsey behind Giroud. Those two linked awesome last season for me. With Sanchez on the right filling for Theo we’ll be awesome.
I’d love to see JW, AOC and AR as the three in the centre. Do you think that could ever work. If only Puma could launch some platform boots.
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Well Jonjo has a future in management secured.
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Either that or hairdressing
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Tbf I was practising that Jonjo technique with my two year old nephew the other day.
“Ball. Here’s the ball. Watching…Go! Get the ball! You can do it!”
Hours of fun.
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Correction,he’s eighteen months.
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This is my understanding: When the midfield is packed with tricky tricksters then Giroud plays to balance it out? Chuck in Diaby or A.N.Other into CM plus Or minus the BFG and you can play all the other little ‘uns and rotate Giroud out of the starting eleven if and when required?
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I’m not sure we saw many CMs at the World Cup hit the levels Ramsey reached last season. His all round game. What a season he had. What a story. Only at The Arsenal.
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Just seen the comment from Blaise Hayes in June last post.
Forget the malformed bitter ones, come back and share your thoughts on the football whenever you like.
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