A post by @Swales1968
How many of the fifty five thousand Arsenal supporters that will be at the Emirates to watch the opening game of the season against Crystal Palace could be called “loyal supporters”? How many would turn up if Arsenal were in the position that West Ham or Aston Villa find themselves in season after season. Their main objective is to avoid relegation, a good cup run will treated as a second team try out and a hindrance at the expense of three points on a Saturday
So how many supporters would there be?
I started going to watch Arsenal in 1976. Attendances were good then at around thirty thousand, if memory serves me right. (If this figure is incorrect I am sorry)
In the early nineteen eighties regularly, there would be figures of sixteen to twenty thousand. On one snowy night just over fourteen thousand turned up. Yes the standard of football was poor, we were cheering when an Arsenal player had a shot, it didn’t matter that it missed, someone had a shot.
It was the period just after “Chippy Brady” went to Italy, and if you think the Dutch skunk RVP’s move to Manure was bad, it was no where near as bad as Frank Stapleton’s move in the same direction. This was the start of the bad feeling between the two clubs, reports at the time said that at the following Arsenal V Manure game at Highbury that the Arsenal board refused the normal hospitality given to opposition boards. I think this was just hearsay because the one thing that Arsenal have always been good at is to rise above such petty things (personally though, I would love to know it was true)
Anyway, I digress. Attendances? How many of those fifty five thousand would have turned up thirty years ago. Nowhere near the fifty-five to sixty thousand Arsenal get today. Expectations were lower, could Arsenal have a good cup run, could Arsenal qualify for the EUFA cup? Win the league; you’re having a laugh, not the league. It was the same level of expectation that a Spurs supporter has now.
Would the Arsenal fans standing on the old NorthBank and ClockEnd get at the players the way Eboue and Ramsey were got at by fans? NO, we laughed, please don’t get me wrong, we wanted to win, we wanted the best players. We were even happy for a game or two when Lee Chapman signed. (And for all those who think Wenger has signed the worst duds they really need to look up Mr Chapman’s career at Arsenal)
Of today’s supporters and their expectation from Arsenal, I think maybe ten to twenty thousand would be bothered to turn up if Arsenal were in the same situation as Aston Villa or West Ham. There would be more attending than fifteen thousand attending as younger fans that have no chance of getting tickets today would be able to attend.
The atmosphere would be better as these younger voices would get behind the team. The people attending would be going because they love “The Arsenal” and will go whatever position the club find themselves in.
The signs were there a couple of seasons back, attendance figures stopped being read out at the matches, people stopped attending matches even though they had already paid for their tickets and this was in a season when Arsenal finished forth(again)
This is what Arsene Wenger has done to the majority of the supporters, he has raised expectations. He has moved the club forward, a huge leap forward. And today’s supporters expect trophies, demand trophies, forth is seen as a failure without a trophy. That’s why I believe only around ten to fifteen thousand out of the fifty five thousand would be bothered to attend if Arsenal were in the same situation as Aston Villa. Fans only seem to be loyal if a trophy is on its way.
Yes, Yes, Yes, what about the eight seasons without a trophy, I can see the replies now. Look at my inbox hundreds of replies from fans saying “I stayed loyal during this period; I paid for my season ticket which went up when Arsenal wasn’t winning anything. It was a disgrace that it took that long to win something”.
During the eight seasons without winning a trophy, Arsenal have been playing Champions League Football, finished in the top four every season, they have not been relegated like West Ham they have not struggled season after season like Aston Villa have done on a very regular basis.
In the early eighties the fans’ expectations were a cup run and/or qualify for the lowest ranked European competition the EUFA cup. Clubs like Aston Villa or West Ham don’t even have these expectations in today’s league; their only aim is SURVIVAL
Under Wenger Arsenal have won trophies, qualified regularly for the Champions League and are now after a period of belt tightening and careful spending are spending again.
So the question I am asking is: –
WOULD YOU GO TO WATCH ARSENAL IF SURVIVAL WAS THE ONLY TARGET?
Positively Arsenal 
I think it would depend a lot on how much it cost to be honest!
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Hi i have put in for tickets for the crestal palace game i think we have a better team this year then last year up the gunners and yes i had a go at mr wenger last year now i would like to see him do very well
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As an Arsenal fan, I do not like other Arsenal fans. So many “fair weather” fans. Before i’m a supporter of Arsenal, I’m a supporter of football and a trainee referee. I fully appreciate that some of our glory days are in recent memory, therefore harder to let go of, but judging by the players in the club, the stability and the loyalty shown by the management, I think we have done pretty well. Everyone who isn’t an Arsenal fan at the beginning of every season says we will drop out of the top 4. I know as fans we aim high but the way we get on players backs when they are not doing well is ridiculous. How are players like Gervinho and Bendtner ever get confidence if they are booed by their own support? I think the emirates would still be sold out if we were aiming to avoid relegation as the size of our fanbase is immense, but I think it would be filled with a higher quality of fan who appreciates football, loyalty and not just winning. Too many Arsenal fans live in the mindset of ‘what have you done for me lately’.
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And who the opponents were on a regular basis.
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Well winston. I hope you feel guilty.
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The simple answer is yes!!! The way I see it is that our fans are to some extent fickle, they don’t remember those times as the mayority are young and have lived in an era where Thierry Henry & Co. success has certainly risen expectations! I started going in the mid 90’s and I’m 30 years old, my first ever game was Sheffield Wednesday at home when Patrick Viera made his debut! I fell in love with the club and what it stood and still stands for, like any relationship I’m here to stay through thick and thin! COYG!!!
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I can’t help but feel as though this is a post to brag about how big an Arsenal fan you are. Why is that we need to constantly challenge each other in this way. Anyone that chooses to support Arsenal should be welcomed not have their credentials challenged the moment they walk through the door. We have a loyal fan base which is boosted by glory hunters but this is the same for every other team in every other league.
In order to be successful as a club we need to embrace every new supporter. After all it’s hard not to fall in love with Arsenal so these glory hunters can be easily swayed anyway me thinks!
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I doubt it would drop to the 20k crowd but there are plenty I wish would fuck off and take up another ‘leisure pursuit’
I blame season tickets
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Too many johnny come latelys have no concept of suffering
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No Liam – it is essential that tests it determine the suitability of a person, their character, their intelligence, their propensity for treachery are passed before anyone is allowed into the ground.
Rigorous selection
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I wonder though if the johnny come latelys experience a different type of suffering? It must have been an extraordinary experience to be a young Man Utd fan last season for instance. They’d have grown up knowing that everything was certain, and then suddenly it wasn’t. It wouldn’t have just been the pain of losing they experienced, but something more like a religious wounding. A kind of God does not exist, everything is random, there is no purpose behind it all sort of moment. Utter despair.
At least those of us who have grown up knowing that the one thing you can’t rely on is everything being wonderful are able to hide behind a phlegmatic skin grown thick with scar tissue. There is nothing quite to beat the gallows humour of loyal fans of poor sides. When I was very young I was a passionate Pompey fan, a Second Division side. My birthday treat when I was about 12 was to go and see them play against Hull – a midweek match under lights, which seemed impossibly glamorous. We lost 4-0, but I loved them even more.
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Nice article. I don’t think anyone will admit to not wanting to go if we had a bad spell but that’s how it goes.
I myself live oop north and would endure massive shit to see them. Regulalry spending time in the home support of Sunderland, Newcastle and Middlesbrough to see them. I’m sure I’d go to watch them no matter the circumstances.
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I beg their pardon. 17.09.1969 Portsmouth 1 – Hull 4.
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I’ve been a fairweather fan, no problem admitting that…. when you’ve seen some of the shit we’ve dished up since 1967, then it’s quite normal. Better to spend your money on booze and birds where you can usually guarentee drunkeness and a wet willy.
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Sage words FH
True support is to embrace the pain, the excruciating frustration, the nothingness and to know it may be infinite
In that respect I have a sneaking regard for Spuds fans
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Good blog. If survival was the only target, I’d probably not be season ticket holder – although you could argue we have had eight years of a “survival” objective to stay in the mini-league of top four. I admire diehard fans that support their teams through endless thin times,,,,
If it was a chance of a good cup run and good football,yes I’d be there.
Reflecting on the last few years, the thing I found most frustrating was what seemed like repeat patterns – we’d dominate possession against a poor team, lose possession, lose a stupid goal on the break. Maybe the pattern is inevitable – that’s how to score against a possession team – but it felt awful and frequent. So the lack of trophies did not get to me as much as a perception of avoidable weaknesses…
A lot to look forward to now!!!!
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Good Post,
I am sure that what you are saying is true.
However I have a couple of caveats.
What is seen as some fans having unrealistic expectations or belonging to the ‘gimme, I want it now’ gang, is undoubtedly a reflection on the ethos of the whole of today’s society, and some football fans’ attitudes are regrettably only a reflection of that general malaise.
My other point is that the moaning minnies are perhaps, as you say, young ‘Johnny Come Latelys’ but to my certain knowledge there are a good leavening of older, ‘maturer’, long-time fans who have also been ridiculously critical of Wenger and the club – (just to show the ‘young, new ‘uns’ they are not the only whingers, perhaps.)
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Incidentally, my late father went to a game in 1966/67 when Arsenal played Leeds at Highbury, and the crowd that day was lower than 5,000.
The good old days – eh?
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My issue is getting to the game and affording it. When I do make it I make sure I enjoy it. I’ve seen poor games and losses. But at least I get to enjoy the atmosphere. Have to admit that its usually good but is always tainted by the odd pessimist to say the least. I’ve not been to a home game since 11-12 season. The swansea game after the drubbing by manure. It was hideous but I savoured it like all the rest.
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hehe i havent read todays blog ..im still on yesterday
“Tim Payton is having a public spat with me on twitter.”
tell him ..hunter13 says to shut your fucking mouth and go knit a pair of socks for him …its the closest he will ever get to understanding football arsenal or wenger.
fuck!!! how does twitter work again? …
++++++++
Dear Liam & Carlos…its not the 20 somethings that took the cameras and microphones..and it wasnt the 20 year olds marching in their black bin bags..but 40 and 50+ grown men who should have known better. imo they were nothing but a bunch of cretins who were killing time on the internet and other social media thinking they know football when i can guarantee you they will get relegated if they play one season in football manager. These guys thought that the early wenger success would be how things would be for the rest of times….only it dont work like that…..they dont understand football cyclical success nor the concepts of building, investing and WAITING….they wanted the club to use its might and go head to head agaisnt oil tycoons whereas a good poker player when sitting in a table of sharks waits and grinds it out and hits at the right moment. We banked on ffp and the inevitable financial mismanagment of our rivals trying to beat 19-20-21 year olds while spending 150= million per year minimum. They never understood that wenger’s stuff are specialists in developing talent. they never got it that a part of making arsenal a money making machine was the academy, another where sposnors (champions league).
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HenryB
Yeah, I had a few Cravates when i was younger, I used to buy them in Saville row and Hermes in Regent Street.
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Quality NB, quality. Hadn’t realised you were David Jason’s scriptwriter.
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anicholl5 @9:45am
“In that respect I have a sneaking regard for Spuds fans”
You’re telling porky pies now, nearly a banned smilley there.
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I did that too NB,
But usually I get wet trousers.
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FH
Mange tout mange tout!
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Imagine getting relegated with a 60,000+ stadium to fill? Not that that is likely….. but who knows what will happen in football 20-30 years from now? Just look at the Arsenal 40 years ago! 17th place finish in 1974….
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DC
Wet trousers with the booze or the birds?
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Liam : Why is that we need to constantly challenge each other in this way.
Because its nice to tell ‘i told you so’ to stupid bloggers who thought they knew better than me and or Arsene Wenger
🙂
so modest of me…
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But what would happen to West Ham and the Olympic Stadium move should they get relegated?
By the way – thanks to the Swalester for the top blog.
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Reports suggest that Biggus Sammus is trying to recruit the Corporal to help make sure the ‘ammers stay up.
Jay jay Okocha
Youri Djorkyaeff
Ivan Campo
I have a soft spot or five for the old walrus. Probably Southampton would be the better option but I can see Allerdici’s selling a masterplan that includes lots of starts and crosses from Jenkinson to that new South American striker that he brought who can jump very high and play football (unlike poor old Carroll then).
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@Swales1968
Thanks! Can’t forget the Loadsamoney caricatures who have rented out their season tickets inside the only stadium built in London in the last decade on budget in order to protest at “the lack of spending”. I bet they’re thinking of asking for their tickets back now.
What a bunch of silly billies.
Truth is many fans have been priced out of the game. If the AST had been genuine about representing these people they wouldn’t ridicule themselves with comments which make them look like rejects from a Harry Enfield sketch, or have hijacked the organisation to promote themselves whilst torpedoing any credibility it might have had, competly wasting support from parliament no less. Tragic. After so many years,the lack of assistance over that time given to the several people behind RedAction, the lack of coordination with fans from other clubs to reduce prices across the board so that the kids Swales refers to can actually go to football games is surely the biggest exposure of the ASTs lack of intent.
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I have never seen the Arsenal in flesh but the team I saw on TV in the 70s – 80s vs the Wenger era is night and day. As a supporter, these days I can lustily sing to (to myself) 1-nil to the Arsenal but back in the day it was boring and ugly to those of us who deserted cricket to become football lovers due mainly to the magic of the Brazilians especially after 1972. Initially I became a fan of the club because of Wenger-ball. Later I became a supporter because I shared the ethos of the club. 8 years of famine between 2006-14 did not diminish my ardor simply because we play football the right way. Wenger has it right; football must be entertaining. Is it no wonder that hoofball is now dying in the PL. Managers like Big Sam are at risk for playing poverty football. Even Pulis has to adapt or perish.
Play entertaining football and the stands will be fill with plenty eyeballs on tv. Afterwards you can get your willys wet.
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Fins @ 12:22pm – Reports in the media indicate that the owners of West Ham are putting a lot of pressure on Big Sam to play football.
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Well, since I live in Canada, I haven’t had the chance even to go regularly during either the Highbury glory years or the recent Emirates top 4 years. So I wouldn’t know. But I’ll have a chance to test my appetite for live Arsenal football this coming season as I’ll be living in London for work on research leave from September through June. I expect to get to home matches once or twice a month and maybe an odd away game or two. I’m especially interested to experience a European night at the Ems. But I expect that if I have greater interest in watching matches that financially, it will make sense to catch a few reserve matches or find my way over to a few Leyton Orient matches.
But I am looking very much forward to the time and hope perhaps to meet up at least with Arsenal Andrew, if no one else, as we didn’t manage to cross paths a couple years ago in late March at the home Aston Villa 2-0 victory when Kieran Gibbs scored, my last time attending! Now that Wigan have been relegated, I’m not sure if there is an away location that I can finally join up with George for a match!
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I agree with Shotta. You win some and lose some, but the club or team should have an identity in the way they play and now Arsenal have come to be re-identified for Wengerball. I hope that that wil continue even after AW eventually retires.
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Football in the 70s and in the Teenies – chalk and cheese
Mind you it would have been interesting trying to play Wengerball on the muddy heaps that masqueraded as pitches, the back pass, the leaden balls, and the constant unadulterated and largely mutual violence that permeated the game.
I do larf on here when people complain about Jack being ‘kicked’
Call that ‘kicked’ ? Meahahahhhhaahh
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I have never seen the Arsenal in flesh but the team I saw on TV in the 70s – 80s vs the Wenger era is night and day.
how dare you say that? do you not remember when arsenal was the talk of europe? the envy of all clubs? the fear we sent down the spines of ac milan, bayern, ajax etc ? no? but im sure when i was in various other blogs the talk was about arsenal being this football institution superpower that wenger was taking backwards …….
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You like this, don’t?
http://mesuti-ozil.tumblr.com/post/93063734231
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It was a different type of kicking back in them days. What is so clever now is the precision assault on the lower ankle and instep.
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Aye FH,
and these new boots are mere slippers.
No protection in them at all.
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Big clubs can get relegated, it happened to Pool and Manu.
Far more difficult nowadays, what with the differential financial fire power, nevermind the ‘support’ of BPL, FA, PGMOL and all the cronies.
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And that is the danger of mixing your chalk and cheese H
If football was still playing by the 70s rules Arsenal would not have qualified to even enter the CL for the past decade
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and these new boots are mere slippers
like them aqua-socks for wake-board
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anicoll5
July 29, 2014 at 3:20 pm
hey A. im not trying to mix the 70’s with the the 00’s….all i ask is …back in the 70’s when arsenal did not have a 450m stadium to repay or to compete against tycoons, back in the 70s when there was no ‘sexy football’ and all teams more or like played with equal aggression….what did arsenal achieve? my point is that fans were outrageously stupid to complain about trophies in a period where the club willingly had to wait for its massive investments to pay off and how that compares to the pre wenger era of ‘greatness’ where arsenal did not have such obstacles to deal with….
and the reason i do that is because in my view the biggest complaints have come from the elders who were there in the 70’s and 80’s and should have known much much better, yet they still turned against wenger and the club…….as if arsenal was ever a madrid or milan for the fans to demand a title per year minimum……
they thought that the early wenger success of the 3 doubles in 6-7 years plus two european finals would be the norm and the status quo for years to come so that they could bask to their mates at work or in bbqs. Wenger ‘robbed’ them of that opportunity because he wanted to do it in a more correct way, and the chelsea/manu trolls loved it that they could take the piss out of the average gunner.
now these same people use excuses like ‘they should have told us from the beginning that the club had to wait and spend next to nothing till it recovers’ ….well DOH…..isnt that how every investment works? and how can they possibly expect the club to come out and shoot itself on the foot by saying ‘ forget about us for a decade we are only going for top 4 and if a trophy lands our way thats a bonus’ ….would they sell tickets? this is a business first of all and if it dont think and act like one there wont be an Arsenal to watch , enjoy, follow, support or even argue about
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On yer bike, Wenger
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Seeing as CalChambers is wearing the number 5 in Austria, something suggests TV’s not a gunner no more…..hmm?
The grapevine wonders aloud: “why not one Belgian for another Belgian?”.
Would a Vermaelen for Fellaini make sense?
What say ye positivistas?
..oh and a happy birthday to me.
5 more to 50.
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Seeing as CalChambers is wearing the number 5 in Austria, something suggests TV’s not a gunner no more…..hmm?
if he stays in the premier league for manu or any other rival club then he is a massive cunt and i will personally boo him …..
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happy birthday aman! mj wore 45 when he came back…tribute
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and we have football tonight, oh yes,.
sparta praha vs malmo
slovan bratislava vs sheriff
and of course debrecen vs bate
but the big one is obviously tomorrow…..
panathinaikos vs standard liege
you dont know what you’re missing…..forget the world cup displays ….this is it! mua…
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Thanks hunter.
Fellaini@100k just doesn’t seem right but neither does Khedira @ 134k per week.
….sigh, if only Gary Medel was 6ft2″
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