Rotation is harder than you think. Back in the late seventies, Sussex CCC was blessed with four outstanding International cricketers: Imran Khan and Javed Miandad from Pakistan, Garth Le Roux and Kepler Wessels from South Africa. Two fine batters and two exceptionally quick bowlers, the quickest I ever kept to. The only problem anyone could see was that the cricketing rules at the time stated that only two “overseas” players could play at any one time, but that was felt to be easily overcome. Fitness levels, natural rotation and an assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition would all come into play, and the management confidently expected to play every match that season with two top, top quality players ready to give their all for the club. Except it didn’t quite work out like that: in fact it didn’t work out at all. It soon became apparent that each of them needed to feel that they were the best at the club, that they would be the automatic choice for the most important games. Other issues came into it of course: exact contract details, personality clashes and political allegiances all had their part to play, not to mention the age old distrust of batters for bowlers and vice versa. However, at the heart of it, or so it seemed to me watching them on a daily basis, was the atavistic impulse to be the alpha male.
When I look back to those times and recall the bitter jealousies and furtive conversations I realise that it wasn’t a very happy club at all. And I go on to think about how hard it must be to manage young men not only in the prime of their life but also at their most aggressively competitive, and then I think of how easy it is for us Arsenal watchers to call for squad depth and regular rotation. But I also see that the whole notion of depth is perhaps fundamentally flawed, because you simply can’t have a squad of 24 players all good enough to be automatic first team choices, unless you have unlimited resources and extraordinary man-management skills. Imagine for a moment what would happen if everyone stayed fit, and how you would keep everyone at a peak of match-readiness, given that only 14 can be actively involved in any one match, only 18 chosen for the team. Think what would happen to those internationals who don’t quite make it onto the bench, and for how many matches they would stay happily involved with the project. I doubt it would be long before the whispers and the accusations of favouritism began to spread, and before you knew it you’d have a divided dressing-room and small groups playing for themselves rather than the club.
Injuries do happen, of course, and it is prudent not only to expect them but also to cover them. I do wonder though how many long-term injuries it is realistic to expect in a season, and I doubt if anyone would think it would have been as many as The Arsenal suffered in the season just gone. Peter Wood of Le Grove fame would argue that many of the injuries were caused by lack of rotation and the over-playing of key individuals, and to an extent I think he is probably right. However, that initial lack of rotation was caused by key injuries to Oxlade-Chamberlain, Podolski , Cazorla and Walcott, while Wilshere was also in the process of returning from long-term injury himself, and so was perhaps not the force he has been (and we very much hope will be) in that exciting yet ultimately damaging pre-Christmas period. To have adequately foreseen and covered for those absences before the season started would have required a crystal ball and huge spending: to have managed all of those players (and those covering for them) had no one been injured may well have been virtually impossible.
Before the Cup Final I did what many fans always do, and tried to pick the Starting XI and bench – and found it hard to do. It would have been that much harder, of course, had Walcott and Chamberlain both been fit, because that might have seen Podolski and Cazorla on the bench, and Rosicky and Wilshere not even in the squad. I am using these names as examples, rather than expressions of preference, but they do help make the point that once you have genuine squad depth and more than 17 fully fit outfield players you begin to run into real management problems. How long would any competitive player wish to stay at a club if he doesn’t even make the bench for the top games? We often hear the cry go up about some prospective fancy signing of “how would he cope with a wet January night in Stoke?” but of course the fancy players don’t have to cope with those sort of nights, because they are left to the journeyman squad members. The real question is “how would Podolski cope with those nights” if due to depth of squad they are the only ones he gets picked for? My guess is that while he would cope with them very well because he is a wonderful player, he is sufficiently competitive to be straight on the phone to his agent with instructions to find him a club where his talents would be showcased in the glamour fixtures.
And this is where I find transfer talk so hard, because I know that for every top, top player that comes in, one of my favourites will either become ever so slightly surplus to requirements, or will leave the club pretty quickly. And I think it is probably also true that given reasonable luck accompanied by top medical support you don’t need a squad of much more than two keepers and 20 outfield players who are genuine first team players. But even with those numbers you are going to have rivalries and disappointments unless you have an outstanding manager with a proven record of earning the loyalty of his players and inspiring them to impossible achievements, like, say, going through a whole League season unbeaten. We have that man, and I am thrilled that he has committed for a further three years. I know that he will add to this group of players, but I also know that he will do it in a way that somehow manages to keep all of them happy. They are going to be very good indeed.
Today’s post was by @foreverheady
Positively Arsenal 
A very interesting post.
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FOREVERHEADY & PG
Goodmorning and very well done on the post. Enjoyable and can’t argue with any of your points. Being a Monday morning quarterback is easy. But to actually do it you need a master juggler with a lot of tact who can garner respect and obedience plus loyalty. for the most part we have that in the ARSENAL plus we have the players genuine love for AW. I’m also happy that the team is being engineered to operate at maximum efficiency with as little star power as it is possible. At the ARSENAL we take the unknown quantity and we turn it into star power. Superstars come with super egos and can be detrimental to team spirit. I only foresee a couple of purchases this summer. Maybe three if TV decides to leave.
Thanks for the writeup and hats off. Nice subject.
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A very interesting and thought provoking piece Fh, and you haven’t really even touched on the added difficulty of trying to manage the progression of the very talented youth players your trying to ease into the side. chelski just don’t even try and throw their highly expensively gathered youth players back into the pool from which they came.
Personally I still think the injuries has more to do with the refereeing style we have in our league which is why you don’t see it at say barca,
The problems highlighted makes it even more incredible that fans suggest they know how to pick an 11 rather than Arsene without any knowledge of the myriad of circumstances that a manager has to wade through.
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Top post Seebs.
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Great post. Yes, wenger has a very hard job on his hands keeping everyone happy…..and doing what he does best, developing young players.
Injuries, now there’s a subject, rotation, squad depth, certainly ref protection and the way certain teams are encouraged to play against us with impunity, perhaps even training or fitness regimes do play a part, because the kids seem to suffer as badly as the first team squad, who knows. But I have always had the opinion wenger is more relaxed than some on injuries, not because he wants our players hurt in any way, but because they provide essential development opportunities for the squad, tho this season , things have clearly gone a bit far on the injury front, hopefully they can improve things here.
But this is clearly a very strong united squad, yes wenger will add a key high quality player or two, but he will not be breaking this lot up in a hurry.
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A very enjoyable read FH. It occurred to me after reading it, in addition to thoughts I’ve had on this subject in the past, that it has become a marker for separating the wheat from the chaff. The wheat being the sensible, evidenced-based bloggers that we have here on PA and Untold A and the chaff on the notoriously negative blogs. How the hell Pedro has the nerve to denounce Wenger and the medical team at AFC on the basis of speculation about the quality of their professionalism, scientific and medical support is bare faced arrogance. It really gets my goat.
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Very good post. Nevertheless without the squad depth of a Man City or Chelsea it is highly unlikely that we would win the Premier League. The Premiership is unforgiving. Before this last season started many said it would be squad depth vs injuries that would cost the league and that is exactly what happened. The pundits who forecast Arsenals fall away were right. A couple of players will not win us the league…guaranteed. What will win us the league is a much bigger squad with some more top class players. The question of how to keep them satisfied is down to wages and the managers magic. Many players want to play for certain managers. Mourinho is one of those. Wenger is also one to a degree. The top players want top money. This is just a fact of life. For Man City this has been the method to keep a large squad ‘happy’. So to win the Premier League in it’s modern context, a very large squad of top quality players is needed, and the clubs not following that principle will just NOT win the Premiership. Last year Wenger proved it.
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A brilliant post Foreverheady. Some (including myself) often forget in our narrowminded viewpoint how difficult the job is at a top class football club for a manager. Rotation, injuries, motivational techniques, people management, transfers, parenting, developing youth, organising tactics for each individual match, plus the difficulties of finance and the economics of a club as large as the Arsenal. Wenger does a superb job, and most would acknowledge that.
I hope I’m allowed back in George?
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Steve. To do that you have to be able to lose £200 million per year like City do.
Any suggestions how we manage that trick?
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Foreverheady
That is a top quality Post, written calmly, rationally and sensibly. Thank you.
I have to admit that I have often fallen foul of those simplistic souls who see Arsenal recruitment in terms of commodities.
The problem with comparing human beings/players with inanimate objects, however unintentionally, is that those pesky human beings have feelings, ambitions and pride, and simply will not hang around waiting for injuries to others to give them their opportunity to play. And let’s face it, if those injuries do not occur, which manager would change a winning team for the sake of rotation, and risk the wrath of the incumbent who will not want to be stood down.
Another side of the coin are those who say young ‘x’ needs a more experienced player in front of him so that he can sit on the bench and learn. How does that help with the need for ‘experience’. [Jenkinson v Sagna’s replacement — Jenks is either going to be good enough with experience, or he is not].
On a separate note, how brilliant to hear from someone who has been in the position to experience for himself the actual day to day life of professional players, albeit in a different sport. Your knowledge and comments are worth so much more than the ceaseless prattling of those who just do not understand.
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Interesting stuff Tim and a topic that has a lot of mileage in it.
One thing that has changed I think is that players are much more used to and patient in the squad system. That may have to do with the bigger team squads on match day which means a lot more players feel actively involved. It may have to do with the pacifying effect of an huge salary on a players ego. The old days of a player being dropped and storming into the manger’s office with a transfer request between his teeth seem to be behind us though. Perhaps modern players don’t care as much, perhaps they are more mature and sensible. Bit of both maybe ?
I think one part of the AFC squad is ‘weak’ and that is the number and the quality of strikers we have, and the almost absolute reliance we have now had for three seasons that our first choice, RvP then Olivier will not suffer a serious injury on 1st September or 1st February.
Fourth window lucky
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Hi George
I’m not supporting the outlay of 200million quid, just seeing that as the inevitable fact driving Premier League football at the moment. Maybe we could have a miracle and do an ‘Athletico’ and win the league through amazing inexpensive acquisitions. It’s possible. But I doubt if many would deny that a lot of supporters saw a fall off coming when Wenger did not buy another quality forward and quality DM before last season. Our squad is just factually too shallow. Sadly if a club wants to win the Premiership nowdays 200mill is probably the cost. I’m not supporting that, just recognising it as the state of play. Whilst I am not a fan of Kroenke at all. Oligarchs like Abramovich who use the money pilfered from small Russian republics to fund their playthings make me sick. To me much club ownership has become the domain of world level criminals. I would personally like clubs to be part owned by the fans so that there would be a bigger input from them.
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Arsenal-Steve
‘Many players want to play for certain managers. Mourinho is one of those.’
Mate, Mourinhio was hounded out of Madrid. By the players. Shall I repeat that?
By. The. Players. Who play football. For Madrid.
After winning the European Cup this past weekend the Madrid players, the same ones who got shot of Mourinhio, they invaded Ancelotti’s (the chap who won the the double with Roman’s billions, unlike Mourinhio) press conference to shower him with champagne and to seranade him with song. The assembled hacks interpreted the gesture and message for what it was. And we can but laugh!
As for the Happy One. If he continues to make calls such as selling his best player, preferring Czech to Courtois, dropping Lukaku for a rust laden Eto who needed six months to get up to speed…well…I will be happy!
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Steve if spending £200 mill would do it fine. But I am saying City run at a loss of £200 mill per year.
We cant do that. Ergo, we cant have a squad like them.
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Thanks FH.
You were keeping wicket to some serious quicks during the glory days of fast bowling, wow! Two questions:
Did you chaps wear mouth guards back in the day?
How are your hands? They must be hard as nails.
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The Citeh PL win may have been earned on the back of a massive £ deficit
It also relied on Gerrard slipping over
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Anicoll5/Andrew is correct, times have changed a little.
In International cricket because of the number of games that broadcasters require to be played and the different formats teams now have different squads for different tours etc. and they also have to rest and rotate key players. They don’t have a choice.
Easy to say in hindsight but the recent meltdown of the England test team proves that it is even harder to keep a squad together under such pressures. Some players looked like they needed a rest last Autumn, they weren’t given that rest, and with other underplaying problems such as the jousting with KP we can identify some of the main causes of the breakdown in that team. Teams have to rotate, but it’s not that easy to do so.
Same thing has been slowly happening with International football, and Peru for example used an experimental team last night.
In club football a (petro) club that can afford to make such massive losses (no one can afford that!) will have a clear advantage.
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True again, but if It was Eto or Torres pressing Liverpool at that moment instead of the relatively fresh and eager Ba would StevieG have been put under such pressure?
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The forward issue is to a certain extent circumvented by the amount of midfielders we have always had to rotate and score goals. The ferguson four is no good if you are only playing one up front and if your midfielders are false 9s or rotate into the strikers position. While at times we seemed short last year imagine if all the front players we fit or at least fitter, squeezing Giroud, Ozil, Theo , Poldolski, Sanogo Santi, TR7, Jack, Aaron into the same team ( and ive probably forgotten someone) . Buy another two strikers and try and continue the development of Chuba and Benik ……and your juggling with many balls.
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Correcting myself, it is not necessary to have a £15M benchwarmer in order to bring on a sub to scare the tiring opposition: I give you, Yaya Sanogo!
He looked so nervous in those pre-season games, arriving in a new country and club after having lost over a season. Doesn’t matter how highly rated he was, when you haven’t played, you haven’t played. I wanted Akpom to get those precious minutes during the season, but he is younger and is being protected so I can’t grumble even if I wanted to, heh! And, I think Yaya has settled in now! Great performance in the final even if the Usual Suspects can’t or won’t see it.
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We have an abundance, and if they were ever all fit, an over abundance of attacking midfield players. It still did not allow Arsene to rest Giroo in Feb and March when I felt, and maybe even the manager felt (?), he was tired. Bear in mind Sanogo was injured for c. 6 months ast season so Olivier held up a mighty weight mostly alone from August to May.
I cant believe we will get through another whole season with no serious injury to OG and, good potential though he has, I cant see Sanogo being good enough to immediately take over.
Surely there is someone out there – somewhere – to help out ?
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Given that after Sanogo was signed attempts were made to get that £15M benchwarmer Ba in on loan, rumours that Klose January loan was blocked, I think they’ll be after a forward in the summer.
Sometimes it’s better to not know what is going on, for example:
David Villa wanted to come to the Arsenal in January 2013. Barcelona did not let him.
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Great great stuff FH. Very interesting to hear from someone with insights of the inner workings of a team sport at high level.
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Fantastic stuff,writings getting better on here all the time. That’s why I retired.
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So what happened northbank, just a month ago on another blog you ridiculed our manager listing Martinez and pulis ahead of him as managers. You also likened him to a bad parent who plays favouritism (Diaby) and wouldn’t bother with some others. What changed? What I’m trying to say is if you could stop being so fickle and stop undermine the manager at every small perceived setback, you would get better response here.
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Don’t forget Bendtner, on paper he was a god fit to fill the gap between Giroud and Sanogo. But of course he couldn’t stop being himself.
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Well maybe not a godly fit but still good.
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A truly excellent piece of writing. Insightful look into squad management. Thanks for the sense of perspective.
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RE: Man City/Chelsea squads
How much better are their squads in comparison? Apart from the forwards from Man City, where is the glaring difference that needs 200 millions of pounds or euros or monopoly money thrown at it?
@Finbury
I am also in the Yaya Sanogo appreciation club. He is going to be a beast. A beast! And everything I have seen and heard from him indicates he has the right temperament to learn and grow as a player. Just lovely to see a player given a chance and shine.
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Excellent piece Tim. Rare is the Arsenal blogger with any credibility born of experience in the ranks of top level professional sports. Maybe your first hand knowledge of the challenges and eventual failure of Sussex’s managementto satisfy those competing egos and agendas may help change a few minds. Somehow I doubt it will alter the mindset of those guys elsewhere who have an alternate agenda and who don’t mind Arsenal being sucked into a nuclear-like arms race with clubs owned by oligarchs and by sovereign wealth of Middle Eastern petro-filled nations.
As if by coincidence, Peter Wood’s piece today at le-gloom is a perfect example of that alternate reality. IJust compare and contrast.
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This is a great post. Just wish more of them WOBs and pseudo managers will get to read it. This will hv them scratching their balls. I wonder if that blogging contradiction, LeGrove will write a counter post. We all know he doesn’t care whether its above his level of expertise or not. Great post once again. Thoroughly enjoyed it and spread it amongst my locals. The WOBs are all-over.
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finsbury wrote:
“Correcting myself, it is not necessary to have a £15M benchwarmer in order to bring on a sub to scare the tiring opposition: I give you, Yaya Sanogo!”
And I say:
THANK YOU!
Had Yaya Sanogo cost Arsenal £10+ million, I suspect that he’d be getting a different treatment in the press and amongst many of our fans.
That boy is a troublemaker and I love him for it. He is the sort of player that we haven’t had in a long time. I don’t score him highly in finesse but we have fine players in abundance. What we need is a scrapper who will just plain make life difficult for the opposition’s defence. That is what Yaya brings to the team.
For a player on a free and most probably commanding low salary, I am overjoyed that we have Sanogo.
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Apropos @2:09pm
You have to understand ‘tongue in cheek’ occasionally. And unfortunately, fickleness comes with age I’m afraid. Just ask the women I know.
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Excellent piece FH.
Man City’s squad is the highest sports team In. The. World.
More tha RM, the NY Nicks or the NY Yankees. Sanga will end up a bench warmer for them on higher wages than we are giving Özil.
There is no way Arsenal can compete with that, or should we want to unless €5k season tickets become the going rate.
City live way, way beyond their means and have taken FFP for a complete piss take.
Our squad is better then theirs anyway, let’s see us play them next season.
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You may be right about YaYa
If he had cost £10m+
Spent his first 6 months injured
Started a handful of games
And not managed a goal
I have a shrewd idea the stick he’d be taking
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I am a great fan of Sanogo, he has the potential. Gets into great goalscoring positions but just gets let down often by his first touch and/or aim. He needs time to develop and I sincerely hope he doesn’t go out on loan. But from how Wenger has used him this last season, I think we’ll see him starting often next season.
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Anicoll,
About as much stick as the reliable and insightful press hounds and their gibbering hoards have been giving Lamela and Loldado?
As Hunter wrote, Hats of to Baldini and the Capello index massive. They’ve done well! Laughing all the way.
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finsbury,
Thanks for responding to anicoll5. You’ve spared me the trouble as I might not have been as polite.
His passive-aggressive snarky retorts are insulting to his fellow contributors in a forum like Positively Arsenal. As you know, I enjoy a good debate and I don’t have any problem with disagreements; actually I kind of enjoy them. But not snarky and sarcastic retorts. He reminds me of Tom at Untold Arsenal.
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I was thinking more the same sort of shite that rained down on Gervinho to be honest Fins – from our ever so reliable ‘fans’
One thing that has allowed the boy leeway is the lack of a price tag
I look forward to seeing a lot more of him next season and showing what he can do. No doubting his energy but he is very raw – he will get a lot smoother, as long as he has the ability, by getting as much football as possible.
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“I enjoy a good debate …..”
Well I don’t
So in future I will ignore any contributions you make
Perhaps it is an approach you might consider ?
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Steady
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That was steady before the last post. I don’t even see the disagreement, What am I missing?
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You are missing my snarky aggressive sarcastic comments that are insulting to fellow contributors George
That is because I am sly
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BTM
Nothing like Tom.
‘Coll’s funny, he has a sense of humour, that’s a big difference! The comment at 18.08 should help clear that one up I hope.
Returning to the topic of the thread Gervais was an interesting case study: not the best or the worst player but with such negativity raining down upon his head there was no option but to let him go.
But, he’d have been handy after Chmaberlain was crocked during the Anthony Taylor testimonial game. Him or Campbell. When Walcott picked up his initial injury in the Autumn I thought about the two who weren’t here with both speedsters out. I bet the Arsenal coaches thought of them too.
But Campbell needed regular minutes to progress, so gambling on injuries would have been risky as well.
Rotating players and giving them the minutes they need at whatever stage thu are at: it’s a tricky business.
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Great post.
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Good grief Bootoomee. Don’t take Anicoll5’s posts personally. I remember, like you, some long time ago on another blog, misunderstanding his irreverent style. Over time, I understood he is not a yes-man who follows conventional wisdom. Almost everyone on this blog has felt his sharp pen, forcing us to question our own ideas and assumptions. I think it is very healthy to prevent group-tjhink on this blog.
My 2 cents.
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I agree with Shotta . anicoll keeps us honest.
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Okay guys, thanks for the peacemaking.
I don’t have any problem with being disagreed with. I actually enjoy a good debate. anicoll5 rubs me the wrong way because of his snarky retorts. If I disagree with anyone, I let them know in a straight forward way. I also expect a straight expression of disagreement and not condescending snark. But we can’t all be the same.
No problem.
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PG, give Northbank, a chorizo.
We forgive him, his trespasses against the positives.
Imran Khan, betrayed his mentor, and Sussex made Imran, an offer he could not turn down Dating expensive women, is not for the tight wads!
PG, I am glad you have forgotten your squabble on another site!
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“Peter Wood of Le Grove fame would argue that many of the injuries were caused by lack of rotation and the over-playing of key individuals, and to an extent I think he is probably right.”
Excellent post except for this smelly turd you dropped right in the middle of it.
I’m no editor, but I don’t think you have to use the words of a cunt who has been wrong about everything he has ever written only to end up making a very good point on your own.
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