I was asked a simple and fair question on twitter some time ago by Andy Wood @yorkshiregunner .
“Tell me George, will you still support Arsenal when Arsene leaves?”
(As people continue to misquote my reply here again is the blog I wrote about it)
Now I understand that it was a snide question, a loaded question, designed to suggest that Arsene was more important to me than the club. I knew that before I answered with this:
Not for 100% sure. It would be hard to think I won’t. But I could stop. It’s like a marriage for me, not a family. If you follow?”
This of course was immediately interpreted to mean: “I will stop supporting if Arsene leaves.” Just as I had anticipated!
People then started screaming that one’s support for the club should be unconditional. “ARSENAL TILL I DIE!!”
And all the other soundbites people use.
Then they saw fit to state the obvious with gems like:
“No one is bigger than the club.”
No shit Sherlock, I had missed that.
As the Twitter exchange continued, I tried to explain that I could not guarantee always supporting the club, because if it changed into something different to that I was in love with, it would no longer be my club.
This concept seemed beyond the comprehension of a few, and some claimed that NOTHING could make them withdraw their support. Ever.
There’s an irony here, in case you hadn’t already spotted it …
So I came up with the most outrageous scenario I could think of, just to test their ‘position’ and asked if they would still support the club if the following occurred:
The club is bought by the English Defence League and all our players are sold, only white heterosexuals are allowed to play for the club. Do you still support?
Almost every right thinking person would say:
“No, it’s a stupid scenario, but no.”
My point being that ALL support is conditional. It’s just the conditions that are required to be met are different, and they vary from person to person.
What some people fail to understand is that “the club” means different things to different people.
My definition of “the club” includes the playing style, its class, history and integrity. The manager, board and players are a large part of that. The whole ethos of the club is what I regard “the club” to be.
Someone told me that “the club” to him was the badge, and that is what he supported. He didn’t mention whether the badge in question was cotton or man-made, so I reserved my judgement on him.
But, nonetheless, for him, the definition of the club was different.
My main point in all of this is that regardless of your personal definition of what the club – or anything you have fallen in love with – is, if that thing you fell in love with, changes to the degree where they or it becomes something or someone you would never have originally fallen for, then it is ENTIRELY possible to fall back out of love.
And this patently includes, even, one’s own chosen football club.
Now, if you are happy to support a club, fuelled by petro-dollars, managed by a hoof-ball specialist or filled with players like Barton, Suarez, Terry, Savage, Cole and Rooney – then great. But I would find it hard to continue that support, ultimately, even if that club was my beloved Arsenal.
It would be a gradual deterioration of the relationship between me and the club, but given the perfect (and frankly unlikely) storm, I COULD stop supporting.
There has been a lot of “I want my Arsenal back” going around in recent times.
Well, I personally want to keep THIS one.
These people that claim to ‘want their Arsenal back’ are effectively saying this current Arsenal is not “their” club.
Effectively, they’ve withdrawn their support already.
This is evidenced by their relentless attacks on the club and it’s staff – on Twitter, in blogs, on radio phone-ins etc. Those individuals who have given up their season ticket have clearly withdrawn their support. They are, as a result, no longer proper pucka Gooners are they?
The anger evident in their remarks is quite possibly driven by the pain they are feeling from losing their love for the club.
Well, maybe they ARE still Gooners.But they have simply come to a point where their support has been withdrawn. Do they watch on TV instead? Or has that been given up too? Have they stopped reading the papers? Do they no longer talk about Arsenal?
If they are still Gooners, it’s clear that bit-by-bit they are losing – or have lost – their love for the club as the conditions that led them to support in the first place are no longer seemingly evident.
For THEM, at least.
Now people can say that they are better fans than me because they have supported longer, spent more money, attended more games, live in the area of the ground or because nothing could stop them supporting. I won’t argue.
I certainly won’t care what they think either.Because they can claim all day long that they are the ‘real’ supporters of the club. But the reality, actually, is that they are drifting away from the club with every attack they launch.
***
Finally someone said:
“Morals in football are bollocks.”
To which I replied:
“Morals are only ever bollocks to those without them.”
I however ,am the last person to judge people on their morals.That does not mean they are any less important.
Positively Arsenal 
Morning George – everybody.
Happy 4th July to our US contingent!
Nice safe, middle of the road post there George; should go down well.
Agree with it all, by the way.
LikeLike
PD…….your underlying point is a fair one. It makes perfect sense that should one fall out of love with the club because it had become something they no longer loved the sensible decision would be to withdraw your love. I would say however that this attitude is one of the newer breed of fickle fan, i.e. “its not doing what I want so I’ll go elsewhere”. The scenario you painted regarding the EDL is highlights your point in an extreme way but remember you actually accepted you’re not 100% sure and you could stop supporting Arsenal if Wenger were to leave. This says more about you than you appear to accept. A true football club fan supports his/her team through thick & thin, for better or for worse. Surely you cannot consider youself a fan of a club if you would actually consider withdrawing your supprt because a manager leaves? Your point is worthy but I fear you are not.
LikeLike
Paul,You seem to misunderstand,I would never even consider leaving because the manager left,that is not a posibility.It is what might happen to the club after he left that could erode my love.
Sadly you seem unable to grasp that.I expect a few will be the same.
LikeLike
Wow what a paradox, which by the way yourself and bsm share.
Love as been written by the great bairds is not conditional and so although I am a union rep and my head is to the left if the edl owned ARSENAL I would still consider myself an gooner. Yes I wouldn’t go and wouldn’t by any official gear ( although since commercialism in football I buy very little anyway ) .
I would just dream of the day when I could have my ARSENAL back, jebus this is getting sureal .
So I see your point but I think the premier league had brought alot of damage to supporters, its that point bsm should ram home and I think they are a bit lost.
Basically I love ARSENAL and if were arguing over what point is support and what point is divorce then I think its fine lines
LikeLike
A or B,my point is you would not be a fan of the new Arsenal.It would be the old one you were a fan of.And if you stopped going ,that IS stopping supporting ,because that attending games is how YOU support.
LikeLike
to stop supporting or following or watching is difficult…..but certainly the enthusiasm wont be the same. to me for instance..the culture of the ggs and their coke/beer drinking antics and the “hardmen” attitudes plus the neanderthal football tactics disgusted me..i considered it no different to todays terries materazis and other scopeballing cunts. it wasnt pure like wenger;s football. it was a sinister bunch of bruisers ..sure we loved them and considered them cult heroes and all but come on…..put your arsenal glasses away for a while and forget arsenal – united and the rivalry and just give me one comment for what keown did to ruud that day…yes we all loved it…imagine now an opponent doing it to one of ours..what would you think of keown then? and dont get me wrong i love martin the reservoir dog.
and you are right george..old guards or older generations of fans have difficulty embracing what the club has evolved into because this island’s culture on the sport is extremely insular and the people here like their own things ….. for a fan who grew up watching adams bruising people and stealing the title in 89 in that kind of emotional last minute fashion could possibly represent the fans world cup momment and the momment he identified with the team/club the most. And thats all nice and good but its mostly representative of locals…not international fans. International fans couldnt give a shit that arsenal nicked one out of liverpool which was a dying force some 25 years ago.
its a clash between the uncultured neanderthal who is happy with his macho football and isnt considered in flair, style, ethics, finances as long as he wins……and then there are the cultured fans who accept both as part of the club fibre but show inclination to be more supportive for something which is progressive than something which is restricted in its thinking and application.
dear paul noone said they would withdraw their support …that is what the trolls and the idiots like to throw back at people like george for acknowledging the immense contribution of wenger in changing arsenal football club forever and for the better. if you havent got it people like you attack george because you dont like wenger really and because you want to return to a an era of thuggery and hardman bravado…thats not football mate. your hatred or disappointment in wenger is expressed by attacking those who still support and trust the great man.
LikeLike
and anyway you look at it arsenal is a much healthier club right now and has nothing to do with those semi pros who wanted to eat bangers and mash drink 4 pints and then kick an opponent on the field…if thats what the “old arsenal” was all about then thank you but no……
it pains a lot when i say it but i will repeat since we have followers and fan clubs ( haha) wenger brought civilisation to arsenal and the english league but this civilisation is very difficult for most english clubs to follow or do so they attcak and mock what they cant do. it takes strength. wenger has it and it has transmitted to fans too. fans like me. i fear none of you, in fact all you pauls out there fear people like goerge or me for you know if you let me in your blogs i will destroy you both ways..the respectful arguement way and the schooling non stop humiliatin humourous type which will send you to the asylum for not being able to cope or answer. i have tons of exeprience….possibly because of my hatred for arsenal ..hehehe….
LikeLike
I have to say I agree completely ( this makes my answer useless doesn’t it. )
If Arsenal were to put someone like Mourinho in charge after Wenger left, the players and the club would start to behave like assholes on and off the pitch.
I would be ashamed to be assimilated to those people even if it’s an Arsenal shirt they’re wearing, that’s how it is.
Thank god our club is run by proper people, and they will replace Wenger (in 10 years I’d say) with someone who shares same ideology, class and whatever makes me worship the guy.
LikeLike
I have no difficulty in understanding PG piece. I wholeheartedly agree with him. Well done PG…
LikeLike
firstly supporting is a perspective sort of thing, if you live near, have loads of money and have time on your hands( no wife and kids etc ) then supporting should be going to every game all round the world. If your circumstances are different then you adapt its not about how often you go. coming on here and talking is supporting, crying and getting the hump with the mrs when we lose is supporting, checking every date in the diary before you can commit to weddings funerals etc is supporting knowledge about history and reserves is supporting. remembering parts of your life by ARSENAL dates . please watch fever pitch for the explanation of the feeling. so be very clear attending is not supporting, if that were the case the best supporters would be those who boo and jeer at the emirates all season.
Personally George, whatever brought you to the club, and this can be different from person to person, I believe your hooked you’ve just not been “tested” yet
LikeLike
Loved your rant.. But hate the fact you felt obliged to explain in such a way. My son is WOB but when The Arsenal start winning trophies he will be full of it.My son is as fickle as fuck.. I hate watching on box with him… But we are both Gooners . And I still love them……
LikeLike
As as I have written before Hunter13 scares the pants off me but I agree with his posts above. I would not express myself in the same ‘unambiguous’ way…but I agree with him…Wenger has brought something so different to the Arsenal and the EPL and this strikes a chord with me. I was Arsenal before, I grew up 3 miles from Highbury and used to attend most home games for many years. But I knew I was a member of a tribe. The football WAS boring and I couldn’t wait for a world cup so that I could enjoy Brasil. Things improved a bit with George Graham. the team that won in 89 were good but not a patch on what we have today. Now Wenger has brought a wonderful style to us EVERY time our team plays.
Yesterday’s link to Matthew Syed’s appearance on Sky Sports News sums it all up for me…It’s not win at all costs (for me)….
Ultimately, it is entertainment, so all this stuff about “Arsenal till I die” etc., for me is nonsense. It’s only my family till I die….
Well done PG….great post….important issue…great debate…..
LikeLike
I have no difficulty in understanding Georgaki’s comment and wholeheartedly agree with Him. Well done GP (and of coursePG :winking face: )
LikeLike
I fully understand what George is saying.
However, it would take some kind of apocalypse for me not to stop supporting Arsenal. Even if Maureen was manager, even if ‘Arry Redknapp was manager, even if some tin-pot murderous dictator bought the club, or to go to extremes….even if the fat Russian gangsta Jabba chap had full control. Even if they decided to move the stadium to the Middle East. I would still support Arsenal. I might be crying inside, I might be slowly dying inside. Hell I might even form my own version of the infamous black scarf mob (how does the black leather shorts brigade sound? no? suit yourselves), but I would still support Arsenal.
I can’t help it. You don’t choose it, it chooses you. Nearest an agnostic like myself will ever get to religion. Perhaps. Maybe that’s Over the top, but you get the drift. I have a natural distrust for groups or clubs, they make me uneasy, not much of a “joiner”, but Arsenal is the exception for me. Can’t explain it. It’s not rational though is it, so there’s no point trying.
I just happen to be blessed that I support Arsenal. Great club with values and vision. I’m lucky, in some parrallel dimension there’s a “me” supporting Spurs.
Food for thought that. Ye Gods.
LikeLike
“not to stop”
That should have been “to stop”..
Excuse me while I sack my typist.
LikeLike
Interesting piece George and I followed the exchange on Twitter the other night.
We all follow the club in our own way, and that way inevitably changes over time as we as individuals change, and as the object of our faith alters in the world. Wenger will leave, at 63 years old he has a finite path in front of him, we all know this.
I think it would be very difficult for me to envisage a circumstance where I would stop supporting Arsenal although over the years there have been phases when football and Arsenal have been less important, and that may well happen in the future.
In the interim however enjoying the game and enjoying supporting the club is where my real energy goes into.
LikeLike
For those who missed it. Here’s the link. Watch Matthew Syed blow all out of the water with regard to sugar daddy funded clubs. This has made my day, week month…
LikeLike
Arsenal is in my heart, because i love every thing about it. So no one, not even me can get rid of it (part of my heart). As i said i like each and every thing about Arsenal, no one can change the club enough, for me to forget my love for it. There are many clubs in this world but I choose Arsenal as my bond with it is unique. Arsenal could be my strength as well as my weakness.
LikeLike
Basically what ‘Coll said, in a rather more succinct fashion than I could muster,
LikeLike
GP that was brilliant. the prem league, sky and the mega rich owners(of which roman opened the floodgates) is all that’s wrong with football. it has taken football away from grass roots and the ordinary working man in a way the hooligans of the 70’s could never achieve. to sit in a stadium of 60,000 people and still hear the players shouting on the pitch is an indictment on the modern game.
LikeLike
I think you’d probably enjoy the book ‘Richer Than God’ by David Conn, if you haven’t already read it. It explores a lot of these themes and how he stopped considering himself an ‘active’ supporter of Manchester City after the Franny Lee takeover.
LikeLike
In football internationals, I support England.
In County cricket, I support Worcestershire.
Both teams are about as much use as an umbrella in a wind tunnel. (As were Arsenal, for a substantial part of the period I have supported them.)
But I don’t suppose I will ever give up on any of them. It’s not a moral decision. It’s not an aesthetic decision. It’s not even a rational decision. It’s tribal and habitual.
As it happens we’re incredibly lucky at this moment as Arsenal fans to be supporting a team which is extremely successful and also scores highly in the moral and aesthetic stakes. So it’s not surprising that many of us are in thrall to the man who has done more than anyone else to bring this about.
But eventually (not too soon I hope) this era will pass. And however bitterly some of us will regret it, for better or worse, a new age will dawn.
And unless the world changes in ways which I cannot foresee, I will still be an Arsenal supporter.
LikeLike
Merlot
Very well put, very much agree, many thanks….
LikeLike
And What Merlot just said. Damn these articulate swine!
LikeLike
A very valid article, and for me, I would draw the line if we had owners similar to Bayer Leverkusen (PG, I think you know where Im coming from with that), there are some clubs out there with absolute horrible histories but its not the clubs or supporters fault, Its the owners and how they conduct themselves which in turn makes us feel guilty through association.
There are still some cases of discrimination within clubs, Bilbao are the latest to move away from a form of this.
Our own Usmanov is a problem for me, as pointed out yesterday he hails from the same group as Abramovich but has been more intrenched with the Kremlin involving himself within their arms industry through to mineral extraction and in my opinion is the wealthiest civil servant on the planet.
So not only is it important for me how Arsenal conduct themselves but it is even more important how the custodians portray themselves to the World. Usmanov for me wants to buy this association that he hasn’t earned.
But we must also remember Arsenals own history starts within a munitions factory.
So it is a very valid topic. When would you withdraw your support?
LikeLike
@ PGeorge,
Brilliant post, really intelligent. Support has to be conditional to be moral. People make comparisons between supporting a government or political party and supporting a football club and generally those analogies are wholly inappropriate, but in this area it is absolutely appropriate. You can’t cut off your emotions like a tap, and if the club’s or manager’s wrongdoing brought success, it would be easy to rationalise a decision to carry on supporting, but I don’t think it would be right. As you say, it all hinges on what the conditions are – if your support is conditional on trophies, you are just a spoilt brat.
I can’t bring myself to support England (men) football team because of who is in it, but wholeheartedly support England Women.
LikeLike
@ PG
And very topical, considering the Matthew Syed clip. He was very refreshing. I did laugh though at the presenters’ reaction. I could almost hear Alan Partridge muttering: “Keep it light, keep it light!”
LikeLike
There are very clearly a number who have stopped supporting the club whilst simultaneously claiming they are “Arsenal ’till [they] die”.
The claim, in THEIR head at least, gives them license to spout any amount of nonsense they choose about the club because their unconditional support permits them to behave like our worst enemies.
But in some ways, THEY are our worst enemies.
These noisy extremists, those hyper-critical, foul-mouthed myth-makers who in a blink of an eye will turn on our OWN players and in so doing encourage our opponents as they actively wish bad things upon the club, have quite simply lost it.
They are the enemy within.
And some of us have lost it with them.
LikeLike
Standing ovation!
The standard of posts and comments on here has been fantastic! Take a bow PA.
For me, supporting Arsenal is made easy by it’s vision, ideals and philosophy at the board and the beautiful, direct and attractive play on the pitch. Now I consider the club lucky to have a man like Arsene because not only did he introduce and maintain the football I now so enjoy, he also shares the principles and values of the club. I have a sneaky feeling he sold the board the Emirates dream. If he didn’t, then he made their job easy. Sign him up!
However, if the club were to morph into something like chelsea or city, I fear my love will slowly wane (especially after your video Georgaki) and I will become a doomer wanting THIS here Arsenal back. I wouldn’t stop following Arsenal though, but my support will surely depreciate.
LikeLike
George, George sorry but 🙂
LikeLike
” It would be hard to think I won’t.”
Are people missing that I said this?
My support it not conditional on Arsene being manager ,but the passion of it is largely credited to him.
LikeLike
Afternoon off, settling down for a large helping of Wimbledon women’s semifinals featuring Mad Marion Bartoli and Kristen “I coulda been a Contender” Flipkens. This may be lost on the non-British commenters, but if Miranda “did” tennis, she would do it like Marion Bartoli. A one-off if ever there was one.
LikeLike
hmm i see there is a seperation in the word support. many mean financial support..buying tickets for instance. well there are thousands maybe millions worldwide who cant buy tickets…are they not supporters of arsenal? it is a bit one sided to relate supporters only with expenditures. i havent had the chance to support the club via buying tickets but i spend on sky/internet/replicas/books/dvds any copyright material of the brand and then the emotional support the devotion of time the canceling of other things in order to attend the ritual of watching arsenal play and so on…form this year onwards i will be able to support further by purchasing a ticket but i considered myself more of a supporter the years where i was away …. now its easy 🙂
LikeLike
Unable to grasp? Bit antagonistic. I merely repeated what you admitted to.
LikeLike
If I was a super hero(which I am http://twitpic.com/c5o4qt ) Hunter would be my sidekick
LikeLike
matthew sayed is right but instead of blaming abramovic he should blame those who opened up the doors and let the money launderers in….like blair and brown…i guess it served some purposes didnt it?
and also when he says that the fans not only dont mind it but encourage it then that means that the modern football fan isnt neccesarily interested in the game itself rather than identifying with a winning group in order to make up for other failures in their personal lives….. i.e gloryhunters….
it is seriously ridiculous…the ones who complain about romance, are essentially basking for commerciality and faceless clubs with mercenaries winning shiny metal things……and the technocrat geek scientist with his economic spreadsheets and player attribute stats is the only one who although highly corporate still maintains a bit of romance whether it has to do with football playing style or even principles or even the idea of creating soul via academies and player/fans.
LikeLike
ill kick them all george ..like patrick did! now here is the embodiment of MY arsenal…. technically brilliant, aggressive when needed, ran up and down for 90 minutes stopping attacks and then creating attacks..boss legend hero inspiration number 4 forever and ever ..the player who redefined the defensive midfielder position…makelele? ahahah just a water carrier …patrick was makelele souza mattheus redondo all rolled into one. one of the greatest players i have ever seen. i iwll never forget roy trying to do an evra on patrick and patrick running circles around him with knee keep ups ..hahaha..this way that way, over the head , back again…and poor roy chasing and chasing..hahaah
LikeLike
I agree with Flowers & Coll (I always bloody do) as I said the other night to George-supporting Arsenal is like the mob-once your in-your in. I’m Arsenal forever,unconditionally.
LikeLike
Nice to see Tim on here by the way,lets be a bit more welcoming to him this time,he is an old clock end boy after all!
LikeLike
This debate has been a great source of entertainment for me. It seems that some people would rather debate the issue that they have constructed in their minds than actually deal with what George has said. So, we have a reasonable and rather honest declaration on one side and a bunch of irrational nonsense on the other. This is the dynamic on which all my favourite debates are based.
LikeLike
After all the incredible comments made earlier, I feel a little inadequate in saying anything truly different or original. Having bumped into the “debate” on twitter after was pretty much over, I was really proud of our boy George for his honesty, despite the risks, in making it clear his support for the club could change. Contrast this with the “gooner till I die” hypocrites elsewhere who effectively withdrew their support for the club by refusing to renew season tickets, no longer attending games, organizing bin bag protests, etc.
It strikes me that since I started following English professional football, the relationship between clubs and supporters have changed. The era of community based tribal support which translated to massive crowd attendances has changed to a business relationship. Clubs are increasingly organized as modern capitalistic enterprises, forming a giant cartel called the PFA, offering an attractive product to the entertainment industry (costing billions of dollars) which we are merely consumers. The entertainment industry is quite willing to milk our love of football and of our football club for as much as they can (tv (cable/satellite) subscription, product advertising, souvenir sales etc.). The industry is fully aware that as fans we are also part of the product. Without stadium attendance and passionate crowd support, it is a fairly sterile product that has no TV appeal. Think of a sit-com without a studio audience. No wonder Ivan pays so much attention to the atmosphere at the Emirates.
It seems to me while clubs increasingly become businesses and treat us as consumers that many of traditional supporters are still living in the past. Instead of demanding a quality product in return for our money and support, we give the owners a free ride. I am happy that Wenger gives us an attractive product with skillful players of sound character whom we can identify with. But what about affordable ticket prices, dedicated sections of the stadium affordable for for kids (stand-up Mel), a return to safe affordable standing zones, cheaper food and beverage.
That is why I applaud those fans of Man United who continue to resist the leveraged buy-out and asset-stripping of their club. Despite the media’s successful efforts at ignoring them, FC United continues to be a thorn in the side of the Glazers and those like Ferguson who went along with the ride. Real heroes. These are truly “supporters til death” who I can identify with. Check them out at http://www.fc-utd.co.uk/home.php
LikeLike
LikeLike
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
LikeLike
ery interesting article i must say. I agree to some of it. Most of it in fact. My two cents
People support a club for different reasons altogether.For some it is about the glamour, and fad. For some it is a family thing. For some it just happened out of the blue (Myself for eg), for some it was more of a peer thing. At the end of the day, we all support. Yes the reasons we started are different, and if that reason doesn’t exist any more, at the club, then the individual who started supporting cause of the now extinct reason, will start questioning himself about why he is still supporting and might even drift . But here is where it gets VERY INTERESTING. For eg, that individual who doesn’t have the initial reason for support, present at the club any more, still makes it a point to follow the club, and support . How does that happen ? didn’t the reason he started supporting go into extinction ? It’s really simple. The individual, without his own conscience, got inclined towards something more about the club. He never knew it happened, until the day he found out that he is still supporting the club, despite the initial reason for support being non existent. That is when you realize, that this is something that is meant to be. That is when you realize, that sometimes in life, something as simple as football, can captivate you forever. All this while you never knew it, but suddenly it flashes and you are overwhelmed, and realize, that it is a matter of the heart. It’s football. It can play tricks with you, and deceive you .At the end of the day, you are still supporting, and you never knew. 🙂
LikeLike
Yes very good post optimist.
We dont like those smiley things though 😦
LikeLike
Interesting points, George. As Anicoll and others pointed out, there are many ways of supporting and we change as do our life circumstances. Shotta really hit the mark though about the corporate character of football and the principled stance of the MU supporters who protested the Glazer takeover. I could see becoming less involved and ardent, but I can’t see developing the same sort of relationship with another football club. It’s Arsrnal or no attachment. It’s like imprinting in Lorenz’s baby geese, I guess. Everyone has to assess the conditions of their support and develop a principled rationale according to their circumstances.
I thought the Syed comments were sharp, but was anyone else annoyed that he didn’t credit Arsene Wenger’s Arsenal for some of the appeal globally of the PL? I mean who played more exciting football and had more attractive players than us 1998-2005? At least he could have suggested that the rivalry between us and ManU helped establish the PL as a globally appealing league.
FG, loved the Paulinho spoof, but what was great was how it picked up on the truth that the player wasn’t especially happy to go to Spuds, clearly preferred Inter, but agreed to go to the highest bidder to help his club, Corinthians. He even called them a club in a big league! Lol! I was a bit sad for him because he is really a terrific player for Brazil, probably their best arguably after Neymar.
LikeLike
That was fantastic George, truly. You have written something that I think all Arsenal fans, from anywhere on the spectrum, should be able to relate to. You’ve shown that those of us on the current positive end of the spectrum could actually be capable of feeling as disillusioned with Arsenal as those who already are disillusioned, but for entirely different reasons. Perhaps it will lead to better understanding of each other’s positions; that those of us who are fiercely supportive of the manager and club at present are not “blindly following” as many of us will have been accused. We value different things, and we identify greatly with the club in its current guise.
I think FunGunner said it perfectly – ‘Support has to be conditional to be moral.’
To say your support for Arsenal is completely unconditional is to separate morality entirely from your football. That means the values and ethos of the club are irrelevant to your support. I could not support the club in that manner.
LikeLike
I did not really get the FCUM protest – stopping support of your original club, and setting up a rival one, is about as extreme as it gets
Manyoo were a big club almost exclusively owned by a gang of very rich blokes, Irish racing magnates, the Dutch bloke who thought up Big Brother etc. and the Glazers. The Glazers bought out the other rich blokes, mortgaging themselves and Manyoo to the hilt to pull off the deal, and won control.
So what ? Why would that notional change of ownership from a gang of very rich blokes, to a few less very rich blokes matter to me ?
The Glazers will come and go, the Kroenkes and the Usmanovs, the Sugars theJoe Lewis, and Romans will come and go, the Ashleys, Jack Walker, Capt Bob Maxwell, Manny Cussins etc – you get the picture.
Why would I turn my back on my football club just cos a gang of rich chancers have gained temporary control , let alone set up another one ?
LikeLike
We don’t have to understand it to respect it as a principled act based on their feelings, I think. But if you want to try, you might note the difference was that the Glazers foisted the debt financing of their takeover onto the club and have been taking money out ever since. I think if Kroenke had done that, Arsenal supporters should have reacted strongly as well.
LikeLike
I’ve thought long and hard about commenting on this. I still don’t feel like I have standing. To use George’s marriage analogy, Arsenal and I are newlyweds. But I find the debate fascinating.
When someone says “I will always” or “I would never”, what they are really saying is “I hope I always” or “I hope I never”. Humans express themselves in absolutes, but if you really examine the question, I think you’ll always find there could be circumstances where these statements might not be true. When you say to a loved one “I’ll see you tonight” when you leave the house, that’s an expression of hope. Life happens. But examining circumstances where that statement might turn out to be wrong doesn’t mean you want them to happen!!
I think that George was (perhaps deliberately) misunderstood on twitter. Some of the ones screaming loudly “Arsenal til I die” maybe know deep down that their actions look like anything but support right now. And they scream “I’ll always support my club” as much to convince themselves as everyone else.
LikeLike