This is a continuation of my series about Arsene and dispelling some of the myths ingrained in arguments that people constantly make against him to highlight some imaginary incompetence that only exists in their thought processes. People make a really big deal about “square pegs in round holes” in terms of players being played out of position and even use it as another reason to claim Arsene isn’t a great manager. What people seem unwilling to accept is that players can thrive in positions other than what they’re advertised or well known as playing in. Look at the likes of Gilberto Silva and Emmanuel Petit, both have played as CBs for their national teams and were converted into outstanding defensive minded midfielders here (and as rumours have it, this was our intention when pursuing Vertonghen as well).
Here are 4 examples from the greatest team English football has ever seen. Seems square pegs do fit rather well into round holes when they mould themselves to that role and arguably end up as better players than they ever could have been in their originally intended role.
Growing up, wanted to be a striker and played the role at the youth levels, but at the age of 20 became the starting left back for us and one of the best we’ve had in our history despite the acrimonious departure and soured relations with the fans since that time — Ashley Cole
Signed as a player who could provide cover in defensive midfield and was transformed into Lee Dixon’s successor at right back — Lauren
Left winger while developing at the youth level, flopped at the same role in Italy and then moved to Arsenal where he was converted into a striker, arguably the greatest of the Premier League era — Henry
A promising young player who had grown up playing attacking midfield and striker he was first signed to be a versatile utility player, filling in at defensive midfielder and then right back before converting into his final role as an Invincibles center back – Kolo Toure
3 out of 4 of our Invincibles back line were not defenders to start with
What this indicates to me, and should to most, is that players with a certain skillset CAN be moulded into a completely different kind of role that benefits the team. One non-Arsenal example for this is Carles Puyol who started his career as goalkeeper, switched to defensive midfield due to injury and then ended up as a right back and finally his position that we all know him famously for, center back. This is similar to the path followed by Lauren and the move to center back from the right is one that could be envisioned for someone like Sagna in the current team too.
I think what people don’t realize is that players adapt and learn constantly, especially when younger. They also need to realize that players are bought based on their potential ability to fit into the system and formation that we play here and not necessarily what they play elsewhere. What matters is the adaptation and the willingness of the player to learn and do what the team requires him to do. One example that came up during a recent twitter discussion was Carlos Vela, whom we tried to mould into a left sided wide forward. There are many arguments that were made during his time here regarding the chances he got here as a striker and what his best position was. However, if anyone has followed his performances in Spain before and after his time at Arsenal, you would notice that he has thrived on the left and not through the middle as many (allegedly including the player himself) have insisted. What was seemingly missing during his time here was the very willingness that he somehow shows in Spain. A similar argument could also be made about Bendtner who was played out wide to help develop him further but it was something that the player himself was unwilling to learn from.
In terms of the current team, there are people who insist that the following players being allegedly out of position and hence not doing their jobs as they should.
a. Arteta is not a defensive midfielder – This makes several assumptions, one is that we need a pure DM (I blame Makelele for leaving a lasting image in people’s heads that all DMs need to be like him) and another that Arteta doesn’t do the job that a DM is supposed to do. I find this extremely odd considering he played this position growing up and his style, based on keeping it simple and distributing the ball when maintaining possession and intelligent positioning when defending, is very similar to what Gilberto did for our Invincibles team. Our system with a 3 man midfield alternates between 2 in front of the back line when defending and just one when going forward and Arteta does this very well. He has been exposed at times this season due to the lack of an ideal partner to help him out in the absence of Diaby (the bridge man as is highlighted in this excellent piece). To highlight just what Arteta has done well, he’s proven to be one of the top 5 midfielders in the league in terms of tackles and interceptions per game and is the best distributor of the ball in the league, the two things that you most expect from his role in our system.
b. Podolski is not a left winger – again I feel it is necessary to mention that we don’t have pure wingers in our system and haven’t had one since Overmars as we play wide attacking midfielders (like Pires or Nasri or Arshavin have done) or wide forwards (like Podolski and Theo in the current system or Reyes in the past). The other thing that people seem to forget is that Podolski has over 100 caps for Germany playing in the very role he plays for us and almost all of his excellent production of goals and assists in his first season has come from starts on the left. This isn’t even a case of Arsene moulding a player into a different role to what he’s used to but rather Arsene putting him into a position that brings out the best of his abilities in the current system. People even argue that Podolski doesn’t do enough defensively on the left but I say these people haven’t seen him play enough with a left back who works well with him. The two examples I give here are his Euro performance against Netherlands and his game against Liverpool at Anfield. The first game he was subdued offensively but also vital in helping subdue Robben on the right flank while the second, heat maps on Arsenal.com reveal rather startlingly that his average position was deeper on the left than Gibbs, thus putting to rest the myth that he doesn’t belong on the left side.
c. Ramsey isn’t a winger – he isn’t, but neither was Benayoun last season and again I must repeat that we don’t play pure wingers. However the sort of work ethic, possession and desire to help to the fullback that Benayoun provided in the 2nd half of last season was what was expected of Ramsey when played out wide. There have been games where he has excelled at it, the most significant one being the away draw at City when he was one of our best players. Playing him out wide also served an even more important purpose, improving his decision making and composure on the ball and you could argue that the same sort of development cycle occurred with Diaby when he frequently played out wide when people couldn’t comprehend the thinking behind it. All this improvement is clearly in evidence in these last few games when Ramsey has again been one of our best players in midfield (and even when slotting in as a part time right back) .I can go into details about how playing on the wings helps that, but it is better explained in Auclair’s book on Henry – “Lonely at the Top”.
d. Arshavin should have played through the middle – this one I’ve saved for last as people believe Arshavin would have been better for us playing CAM behind the striker. He is definitely very good in that role however some points do get in the way of saying we misused him. His best and worst seasons for us have both been as a free roaming left sided wide attacking midfielder for us. So I don’t see how playing him there hasn’t got the best out of him – especially considering his first 2.5 seasons contributed 58 goals/assists in 82 appearances, essentially proving that he contributed a goal or an assist at least in every other game. Another key point is, if you ever actively look at Arshavin playing through the middle (or dig up old Zenit games) you’ll find that he thrives on a free roaming role and the majority of his best moves happen when he drifts out to the left (the position we played him in). The best example is from last year’s Euro game against the Czech Republic where he was quite an influential player, his heat map from that conclusively proves that even if starting through the middle, his main areas of contribution are in the very areas that we played him in (and gave him a free role for)
These are again but a few examples of players who have been played out of position for their own benefit or for the benefit of the team and there are several others who do come to mind as doing excellent jobs in their “out of position” roles such as Flamini playing LB for most of our tremendous Champions’ League run without conceding. The point is that, this is yet another accusation against Arsene that is well off the mark and even if the benefits of the move aren’t visible instantly or even comprehensible at first glance to some, Arsene knows what he’s doing by putting a player in a specific role whether it is to develop their skills or benefit the team tactically or both.
So Arsene Wenger, is he clueless to play certain players out of position as he is often accused? Or is he a visionary to develop certain skills or to mould a player into something special in a position you wouldn’t have expected?
Positively Arsenal 
Great write up couldn’t agree more. Will spend the day thinking of other examples.
In Arshavins case I just felt he got lazy, whenever he lost the ball his headed dropped etc. not good for team spirit
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Obviously way before Wenger, but every team needs stepping
stones to success. The Bertie Mee double side had two notable converts. McLintock right half to centre back and Peter Storey right back to midfield destroyer
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Bob,have you got a death wish?
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Eboue – attacking and highly athletic right back to the new Zidane – discuss?
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Nicolas Bendtner – bad winger or just a bad bad man ?
You have to kiss a lot of frogs in this game
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Such a good detailed analysis, Adi, and very well explained. Excellent research for your examples. Football fans can be rather conservative and rigid in their thinking and some of them are obsessed with positions as opposed to skillsets. Some also have little or no interest in developing players, hence their impatience with eg playing Ramsey on the wing – unfortunately this attitude has also been shown by one or two of our players (Niklas, I’m looking at you!) And most managers are like that, in fairness. They buy readymade and if the player isn’t working, or doesn’t fit the system, they try to get rid. We don’t. We work with the player. That is one more in the long list of reasons why players want to work under Wenger – they know that he will help them get even better.
@ Bob F, PG
The thing about Arshavin is that he doesn’t provide enough defensively through the middle. Wilshere, Cazorla, Rosicky – all of those have much better defensive awareness than AA. We can’t afford not to have that extra layer of protection in that area. I wouldn’t call it laziness as such, more like just not getting it. I suspect (I am open to be corrected) that because of his talent, most of his career he has been told to just get out there and do his thing.
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Off topic, but isn’t AOC looking good – and HUNGRY! I hope he comes back safely from Montenegro.
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Good job Adi. Unfortunately, we live in era where most football fans, not only Gooners, believe it is easier to buy a solution to a problem rather than patiently developing and molding players into a team. So, until recently at least, it was easier to declare Ramsey a failure. Now the attention has switched to Diaby with many quite willing to to hound him out of the club, demanding that Wenger sign the biggest and baddest DM money can buy.
Apart from those at PA, you may be virtually throwing pearls to swines.
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Ramsey playing wide is based on the ray parlour system with ray tucking in to allow Overmars and Veira to join the charge or going wide to provide width and crosses from the right. he would also provide cover in front and in place of lee, this was all about
decision making and knowing which of the four roles to provide and when. Aaron is not quite up to rays standard yet but is getting there.
I also think Aarons best position will be picking the ball up of the back four ( a job he already does better than Arteta ) this will negate the problem of him slowing counter attacks.
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Adi
That analysis is the dog’s nuts.
Well done, thanks
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George
You’ll have to excuse me, I came from a blog (albeit an inactive one) where I was a lone a wenger supporter. The guy genuinely has given me a great deal of pleasure. Even throughout the drought years there has been some great football. Even the reserves playing in the league/coca cola, littlewoods cup were incredible. So I have been fighting trench warfare against the evil orders for quite some time. It s possible that I am only a 99 per cent positive because of this iand being new to the blog I suspect I will fall out of line occasionally… No offence intended.
The thing about Arshavin who has incredible talent,, is he doesn’t seem to value the ball. Players like Wilshire, Cazorla fight for every ball and don’t give up. Arshavin loses the ball and stands there looking at the heavens. Have always admired grafters ( I defended Ramsey to within an inch of my life).
Really enjoy the blog, hope I am allowed the occasional slip up
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Bob .I can take anything except people calling Arshavin lazy.
I may write a blog about it.But for now suffice it to say he is not.
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Oh and another thing Bob,If you knew me you would know not to take anything I say without a huge pinch of salt.
EXCEPT ARSHAVIN He’s Sacrament.
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Getting there George. Do you think he has a future at the Emirates? On his day he can be fantastic to watch
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No ,his time has passed.
He is likely the most skillful players we have.That includes Santi.But his style does not suit our system.
I dont think it ever did either.
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He would have fitted into the Invincibles perfectly.
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Good post, Adi. You should’ve saved this one for a day other than a Sunday during the international break.
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Another great read Adi, and another topic (like the previous one on Arsene’s tactics) that I find incredibly frustrating to hear being discussed with such shallowness on twitter and blogs. The case of Lauren, Kolo and Cole is also another huge slap in the face for anyone ridiculous enough to claim Wenger doesn’t know how to train defenders. Three quarters of the Invincibles back four weren’t even defenders when Arsene got his hands on them!
Coming back to the topic of players played out of position, they said them same thing when Cesc was pushed forward into a no10 role (he’s not a goalscorer, he lacks pace) and when Van P***** became the Arsenal no9 (he’s not a finisher, he isn’t strong enough).
Of the current team, it’s the ‘Arteta is not a DM’ argument I find the most baffling. His ball-winning and distribution stats speak for themselves, he performs the job with great enthusiasm but also discipline. If I were to look for a ‘weak link’ in the way we defend, Mikel would be right down the bottom of my list. He’s never the one making silly errors, or being caught out of position, or shirking defending. Why do people have a problem with him in this position?
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LeoS, it’s because he doesn’t look the part. Football fans love a stereotype and a pigeon hole!
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What Passenal said.
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Passenal, that’s the same conclusion I’ve come to. I’m not sure what else he has to do to satisfy some. Another interesting fact about Mikel – he’s made a very high 59 fouls this season in the league, but has picked up just 3 bookings. The cheeky Spaniard even has a knack for the dark arts of the game! Song used to rack up the yellow cards like nobody’s business, sometimes without even genuinely fouling his opponent. It might be because Arteta doesn’t fit into the DM stereotype that referees give him so much leeway. An Arsenal player being allowed to get away with 20 fouls between every booking is surely unheard of!
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Leo it is about 3,6 fouls per booking for us I seem to remember
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22 comments on a wonderful article like this WTF?
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Oh 23 now
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now 24
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Bollocks 25
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Oh,I see .sorry
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It is a good article and the notion that Arsene can’t spot a player and see more than even the player himself can see is unarguable
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WELL DONE ADI.
good research and very well put. I still think AA can offer us more down the middle at his age if he can be comfortable in thinking someone has his back. He is just that. A pour unlocker and can thread those passes no one else can. Except for Santiago and Tomas. On his day he is a pleasure to watch and it is sad the way he was hounded so much by the home fans. One reason way he has been employed only away from home since. Same reason why DENI was shipped out to loan.
As far as MIKEL I think he is doing a more than adequate job at DM . That doesn’t mean he isn’t better as a CAM. .i remember watching him play for Everton in that position and he was their main creative outlet.
Granted we can’t compare the two teams as they play different formations but he did prove himself in that role. I wish we had made a deal for him two years before we did and before his major injury.
Hope everyone is having A good weekend seeing as I had to work through most of it.
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29. . Do I hear 30.
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30
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ARE U SURE U HAVE GOTTEN THIS ON NEWSNOW YET?
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Well done Adi!, enjoyed that write up.
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Thanks Adi, I enjoyed it too!
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Arteta the dark prince. I believe it is his hair that lets him get away with it.
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NewsNow?!?
Doesn’t NewsNow have software which automatically filters out Arsenal media headlines which are even mildly supportive?
Or is it just that (pre PA) there weren’t any?
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While we await today’s post it is useful to note, our Gervinho, another of Ashburton Grove’s deadwood, was on fire for the Ivory Coast in their 3-0 defeat of Gambia in a WC qualifier last Saturday. According to Gambia’s coach, “Gervinho was a big problem for the Gambian boys in the second half because he was the most dangerous player.” Hopefully he remains hot for the end of season run-in.
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what a great piece. well said adi. i would add that the swift from the 442s or 4141s or 4411s to 433s and its variations has brought the biggest change in roles for the dmf and the extrems/wingers in the whole of football, not just arsenal.
for dmfs i remember the organiser type like mattheus dunga robson…deschamps even..these were followed by the raijkard effenbegr keane van bommel type and you also had the cultural dmfs like guardiola albertini paolo souza prosinecki cocu…and the combination of all them three types was “idoitall”” vieira. to me, he was the one who redefined the position…not makelele..makelele was the typical ball winning dmf, the pitbul if you want.but in terms of pitbulls i hold davids as the greatest of all and in that mould there was still a gatusso. the position is still changing all the time…id say the evolution of vieira is the box to box yaya, vidal,song but i cant ignore the schweinsteiger/gerrard type of dmf either. today we also have the neat and tidy dmfs like busquets alonso carrick or even attacking midfielders playing in that position ,,arteta anderson flamini pirlo … (flamini was the clear “10” in the u-21 france team of sinama pongol and bourgignon that went to finals before the 2004 euro of the seniors) the one that is eclipsing is the ambrosini/gilberto …. dont see too many static anchormen who do the silent job anymore….the game has grown to need and involve everyone, hence the necessity that many more players must become comfortable in multiple positions.
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Excellent post Adi – so good it’s ‘today’s’ post two days in a row!
At the end of it all one can’t help but think the whole ‘playing players out of position’ thing is barely an argument at all but simply another stick with which to attempt to batter the club, manager and players.
Could do with a big bonfire – this one to deal with the real deadwood of false arguments.
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i like Arteta but for those worried by criticism of him……I don’t think its because he’s not good in that position but can probably do better elsewhere. my main gripe with him playing dm is that he receives the ball of the back four but rarely turns instead he gives the ball back from whence it come and in the case of per that’s not always a safe option, it just invites pressure causing the ball going immediately long or long via the keeper, this then increases the chances of losing possession. both le coq and Ramsey look to play forward more than square or behind keeping momentum, pressure and ball retention.
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‘the game has grown’
Careful Hunter, don’t upset anyone!
The desire to remain rooted in the past of the game is bonkers. Yet the Revieites seem to have been marginally successful with their regressive and inaccurate ‘Arsene inherited his D-Fence’ gibberish.
In cricket, imagine if the England team had kept on telling themselves that reverse swing was just a slim shady art of the East to be filed along with Murali’s hyper extending elbow, and not a skill to be learnt. Well, they’d still be crap and never been able to have beaten a half decent Aussie team a few years ago. Topical, because in the current game former skipper Michael Vaughan thinks they are not shining the ball properly! Skills: they are worth learning, and worth appreciating.
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There was a period when the plunditocracy would tell us we needed more ‘big uns’ in the team, which was odd as these recommendations seemed to ignore the use of Song or Diaby or both in CM, plus the tallish striker who has now been replaced by an even taller striker.
Is Arteta more comfortable alongside a big un? I thought the partnership last season with song worked well, and this season the results when playing alongside Abou have been good. Though that is a small selection of games – I think one prime reason Wilshere played the second position was to accommodate him on his return from injury, before moving forwards as he did when he had some game time and stamina (just a guess!), so that’s also been an issue. In short, I don’t know. I’d like to have seen Coquelin get a run alongside Arteta but at whose expense? they’re keeping him fit with the u21 games, Maybe he’ll play tonight against Moscow too. Looking forward to the game.
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AA those goals for the U21s by Gnabry were good! A striker/AM then? That is where I think the Ox will end up at some stage of his career too after apprenticing wider, as a tennish player.
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they can get as upset as they want fins..noone can fool me about what arsenal used to be , what kind of football we played and how limited the whole club was in terms of vision and leadership let alone towing in line with the modernity of european football. the way i see it , those who insist on an archaic perception of football combined with nationalism and false pride have nothing to offer to arsenal any more… its all in the past..the future is only important.
it is absolutely fine with me to give credit to the entrepreneurs like dein and others that staged the epl/sky/murdoch commercial money beast but the people who give credit to such schemes should recognise that without success on the pitch and expansion of the brand name due to the football that attracts millions worldwide ( i.e the wenger factor) non of what we see in arsenal today would have happened.
im readiing in flynns book which is not pro-wenger, how the change of emphasis was given in training the academy players and the scouting of players and how banfield brady and bould would have no problem disregarding english kids for foreign quality. essentially they all admit that the arsenal academy started functioning properly and according to world and european standards from 1998 onwards.
as for the myth about wenger and inherriting the gg back5 one can only laugh…and it shows the desperation of the old guard of arsenal fans and their revisionism and nationalism getting mixed up with football, a sport. i have a lot to say about this subject but i wont….it is a very difficult subject for some to accept…it is diffucult for them to accept that arsenal has grown beyond the borders of north london or even england , that arsenal represents millions worldwide who have a far bigger appreciation for the transformation and change from just another a traditional english club to an international world class football club with a philosophy and mentality totally european and alien to the “hoof it” smash him”, stick it in the net” culture that the english public is customarily used to.
they see it very differently..they remember their “warriors” going into anfield battle and the likes…… for them such a feat is more important than being the first english side to beat real inside the bernabeu ….with such a chasm in the perception of “football” there was always going to be this rift between arsenal fans… especially when the titles stopped coming due to emphasis in repaying stadium.
wenger is the type of manager who assumes his position as manager for the next 100 years …not 3…. our fans would do good to understand this concept.
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i mean …we have the ridiculous complains of villagers moaning to wenger for putting emphasis on top4 finishes ( and champions league exposure, money, fame etc) instead of the domestic cups ..which only carry a “romantic” element…nothing practical or tangible that would really assist the club and its development.
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“lets have a nice day out at wembley…something for the fans to cheer about”
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they kept/keep saying that “if” the kids win an fa or cc it will provide the stepping stone to greater things…such bollocks..such a childish 6 year old mentality. the kids were participating in the last 4 and 8 of EUROPE and fans were giving them shit for not winning the f.a cup or the c.c? hillarious…only a brain damaged alcoholic bnp parasite would ever think like that.
the manager keeps the players focused on going for big things no matter their age and the fans complain about wanting a bit of pleasure from the little things… ..so absurd.
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and yep wenger doesnt know defence but he holds the record in champions league and in the epl …..
i tell you ..some of our fans are hillarious know-nothing mugs….
🙂
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Hunter,we fucking know.
You keep telling us.
We get it.
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right on george !!!
“fsssstttt…. PAST…future is only important!”
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Oh ,and it looks like we have no blog today.
Not quite sure why not
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Hunter, what George said.
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Shotta, Gervinho’s confidence has shot up ever since the ACN. The goal he scored against Swansea was very similar to the goals he was knocking in during that tournament. I see him being instrumental in the run in for the CL spots and I think the none deluded fans are going to give him all their support. The people who have already decided that he’s shit, well they can go do one.
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Wenger just sits around eating mangos and talking crap on the phone with his mates in France while Steve Bould does defencive drills.
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Apologies for waving a red & white rag in front of the snorting Hunter : )
Listening to the progressive, successful and forward thinking former England Cricket captain and master tactician on the radio reminded me what we miss in the football plunditry.
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