The shock of going down to Bayern by 4 goals last Wednesday is a loss that many Gooners are still trying to come to terms. None of this grieving is helped by the sensationalist mainstream media and the army of trolls from other clubs who are doing their best to pour scorn and contempt on The Arsenal.
Using the voice of famous club legends, the BBC did its best to convince fans a bigger loss was imminent. They quoted Martin Keown as telling BT Sport:
“Arsene must be considering his future now.”
And ex-Arsenal defender Lee Dixon became a mind reader overnight:
“That is the first time where I’ve seen him where I’ve thought, ‘he thinks it’s time’. The fact that he hasn’t been able to get a response from the players in the last few weeks might be the final straw.”
They reported that Ian Wright posted his frustrations on social media and declared he was “not watching anymore”. That was before resorting to one the usual tricks of the mainstream media, i.e. giving credibility to a piece of fake news. They repeated a totally debunked story from prior week, when Wright reported Wenger did not expect to stay on next season. Wenger himself denied making any such disclosure.
Just in case you weren’t convinced, a quotation from Bob Wilson while on BBC Radio was added to the mix:
“I wouldn’t be at all surprised that Arsene now, with the amount of headlines that are coming his way, will look at that and say ‘two decades’.
As for the print media, the Times’ chief football writer Henry Winter described the Gunners as a “laughing stock”, adding that he felt Wenger’s best days are behind him.
“He has lost his leadership skills, there’s no invincible streak in him any more”
Among trolls from opposition teams, former Manchester United defender Rio Ferdinand said Arsenal showed no fight or aggression.
“They looked spineless,”
“You want to see fire in their belly and that’s the most disheartening thing for me.”
By the way don’t remind Ferdinand that United did not qualify for this year’s Champions League and in the past his club has tasted some heavy defeats. Losing 1-0 to the mighty Lille, 3-1 to Gothenburg, 0-4 to Barca all in the group stages match, and 30 years before that went down 0-5 to Sporting Lisbon in a UEFA Cup Winners’ Cup quarter-final second leg on March 18, 1964. Facts can be very harsh especially to a blowhard with no historical perspective.
Former Chelsea winger Pat Nevin, whose ex-clubs did not even qualify for participation in the Europa league this year and never played a single game in the competition, is now an expert on the Champions League:
“It’s exactly the same in the Champions League and it’s a real shame, it just feels very close to the end. I’ve never said it before about Arsene but it does feel that way now.”
As readers of my data-driven blogs are aware, none of this over-reaction by the media and by our fans is surprising. As I have shared from the literature on investor psychology this is typical of media and public attitude to the stock market. The media had a commercial interest in hyping Arsenal’s prospects before the game. From what I read and saw, Bayern v Arsenal was going to be the biggest sporting event on the day’s calendar. From my little knowledge of the English media it would have been the lead story in every newspaper and endlessly promoted by BT Sport who were televising the game. Millions of pounds of advertising revenue and media tie-in were on the line especially if Arsenal was to come out of Bavaria with fighting chance to win the return leg.
Arsenal not only losing but losing heavily would inevitably result in an equal and opposite reaction to the pre-game hype. (Newton’s laws of motion remain as applicable as ever.) No wonder Mr. Winter of the Times resorted to hyperbole and blaming Wenger for losing to superior team. Afterall his sensationalism will not only sell papers but give further credence to his anti-Wenger screeds. Apparently he recently had a tete-a-tete with Gary Neville who called out a WOB with a ‘Enough Is Enough, Time To Go’ placard at the Chelsea game. Neville commented:
“He’s an idiot that guy.”
“Arsene Wenger doesn’t deserve that, obviously the Arsenal fans are disappointed, but to pre-empt by bringing a banner into the ground, it’s a joke.
“Remember, the consistency of finishing in the top four might not be acceptable for Arsenal fans, but the alternative might be that you finish below those positions.”
To be honest, Gary sounded like almost any of us at PA. In reply, Winter, who I must stress is now the head football man at the Times, in one of his columns responded that Neville:
“badly misread the mood of huge sections of the Arsenal support and, also, arrogantly dismissed their right to protest.”
One is left to wonder which sections of the Arsenal support Mr. Winter is plugged into as the latest poll I am aware of shows over 53% of Arsenal fans want Wenger to remain and furthermore no fan has the right to protest within any stadium. By paying a ticket they have the right to a seat to watch a game but not to protest, in the same way readers of the Times have no right to protest within pages of the paper any b.s. written by Winter et al.
But I digress. The media’s “confidence” that Arsenal may progress has turned to contempt. A similar negative sentiment has swept the fanbase with feelings ranging the gamut; indifference, dismissal, denial, fear and panic.
Pre-game Arseblog was crowing:
“Can we go back in time and let in another goal against Paris Saint-Germain in the group stage so we can play that Barcelona lot? They’re rubbish.”
Post game he was contemptuous of Arsenal, no different from his media colleagues:
It called time on some of the players involved. And I think it has called time on Arsene Wenger’s Arsenal career.
If I had the power, when Arsene retires, I would call time on Arseblog’s career as a blogger as he owes his entire being to the success Arsene Wenger has brought to the club including 20 years of consistently qualifying for the champions league. Without this success the Sage of Dublin would never have the size audience he now has to spew shite on the man who is the primary reason he became one of the biggest bloggers in English football. Now he can leverage that audience commercially; the media gigs and tie-ins with razor vendors, fantasy football, gambling sites etc. What a beautiful life. When promoting the end of Arsene Wenger he should look with fear and trepidation at the plight of United bloggers who, because their club’s fortunes have dipped precipitously since Ferguson retired, have no way of keeping up with his commercial success. The Sage of Dublin can at least argue he supports one of the consistently top-3 clubs in England.
Unlike our more “successful” blogger, my colleague StewBlack had no illusions about the odds facing Arsenal in Munich. I will quote him extensively:
“Let’s pull no punches we have not been in the best form of late. As ever injuries and international duties have created instability at the heart of the midfield, these, combined with Xhaka’s suspensions are, I would hazard, at the root of our problems. We have, in spite of these issues, managed to grind out enough results to keep us in contention but against the real form team were found wanting.
“So what does this all mean for tonight’s game? Clearly we can’t rely on luck but it would be nice and indeed useful to catch a few breaks this evening. We’re playing one of the tournament favourites at their own ground whence very few foreign teams return victorious. Bayern have, in their last five matches conceded only one goal and scored eleven. No one is underestimating the scale of the hill we need to climb tonight.”
Based on Stew’s analysis, we went into the game as underdogs and we got whupped as underdogs. Nothing changed statistically. My only difference with Stew and others is that without Santi Cazorla, our chances of beating Bayern were slim and none and, in hindsight, slim did not take the Arsenal jet to Germany.
I have done the research showing that historically Santi is our most valuable player, “quarterbacking” our midfield from deep. Seven (7) PL games this season with Santi, AFC’s ppg was 2.7; nine (9) games without him it fell to 1.3. There have been nine (9) more games since then and I suspect our ppg is just as bad if not worse (need to update). In his four years with the club, with Santi the average ppg is 2.09 but for Arsenal overall (accounting for games without him) the ppg was 1.92.The average PL winner in those years averaged a 2.26 ppg. Simply put, without Santi’s assists Arsenal has never been in contention for the title.
In preparation for this blog, I researched the Squawka data for AFC’s midfielders this season and by far the two best midfielders are Ozil and Santi based on Avg Performance Score. The difference between Santi and 3rd place Iwobi may be 2 points but there is a huge gap offensively; in Shot accuracy, Avg Pass Accuracy, Avg Chance Created, and Avg Goals Scored. One day I will publish the rest of my findings. Readers may be shocked by the ranking of the remaining midfield players from 1 to 8.
| Ozil | Cazorla | Iwobi | |
| Avg Performance Score | 27 | 25 | 22 |
| Total Appearances | 22 | 8 | 21 |
| Shot Accuracy | 50% | 67% | 47% |
| Avg. Pass Accuracy | 87% | 91% | 87% |
| Avg. Pass Length | 15m | 16m | 14m |
| Avg. Chances Created | 2.68 | 1.25 | 1.14 |
| Avg. Goals Scored | 0.23 | 0.25 | 0.14 |
| Avg. Defensive Actions | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Avg. Duels Won | 53% | 28% | 55% |
The data is clear and consistent. Until the club’s technical leader returns from injury AFC will struggle to play effective, offensive football.
In my judgment, the biggest blow suffered in Bayern was our confidence. As Arsene often reminds us confidence is very fragile; quick to go, slow to rebuild. I am confident the manager will help the team rebuild this confidence despite current doubt, suspicion and caution. It is an eternal cycle; always was and always will be.
Positively Arsenal 
Excellent Shotta – you have speared the nonsense of the crowd with both words and numbers.
Not to detracted from Shotta’s excellent piece but for anyone near a Sunday Times this morning an equally penetrating article from Rod Liddle (strange I know but true) about the Wenger hysteria this week. Here is a brief extract to give you a flavour;
“Arsenal are currently fourth in the Premier League, just two points off second place. Tottenham Hotspur, above the Gunners only on goal difference, were also playing in Europe last week. Having come a dismal third in their Champion’s League group they travelled for a Europa Cup fixture to the might of Gent, in Belgium — a mid-table club ranked 139th in Europe. Tottenham lost 1-0. I think that’s probably worse than losing 5-1 to the team ranked third in the world.
Meanwhile, Manchester United were also piddling about in the Europa League. Arsenal won their Champions League group with some ease: Manchester City, above them in the Premier League table, finished a distant six points behind Barcelona, in second place, to whom they lost 4-0. These are the benchmarks against which you should judge the performance of Arsenal and Arsène Wenger — not simply that they are unable to hold their own against a brilliant Bayern Munich side, but that they topped their group, reached the last 16, continue to occupy a Champions League place domestically and have always been one of the top four — and usually top three — sides in the country.”
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In case anyone wonders he is a self confessed Millwall fan.
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excellent, really enjoyed the very true comment on arsenal bloggers who pretend to support the club but only want to line their pockets at the expense of the real fans, I dont read that crappy clickbait no more and Shotta was absolutely spot on that without Wenger those lucrative fakefanblogs will go bust,
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Shotta
Re Santi it means we need another playmaker apart from Ozil in the team at all times and Iwobi is not the answer?
I think Iwobi can do well against moderate opposition but lacks the experience against bigger oppnents like Bayern and Chelsea for instance.
Ahh i miss Rosicky so much.
He always brought the spark we needed in the 2nd half of the season.
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Fine work Shotta. The problem with Santi is that he is not getting any younger which makes a full recovery from any injury less likely. That being the case the club perhaps needs to search for an influential genius, which is harder than almost impossible unless you have unlimited funds. I wonder what Ozil would be like in that deeper role?
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Don’t get me wrong, I think the majority of what you say is spot on. However, much as I love and respect AW, he does make some baffling selections at times and can appear tactically naive and/or too predictable. What makes this so frustrating, is that he gets so much right, but then undermines that, with a couple of apparently wrongheaded decisions, that so often prove the teams undoing – particularly in the big games. Not waiting until the 60th minute has passed to make a tactical substitution, would be somewhat refreshing, particularly when it’s been clear a change was needed for much of the game. That wasn’t the issue against Bayern of course. For me, the tipping point was the predictable piece of bad luck, with the injury to Koscielny. Even then the subsequent collapse was abject and inexcusable and the players let all of us down badly, including Arsene. I also agree, the loss of Santi, has been fundamental to the way this season has played out. Had he stayed fit, I think we would be in a very different and happier place right now. But then, that would have required a bit of luck for a change and that has not been on Arsene’s side for a very long time.
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I read the full article yo mention @ 9:47 a.m.anicoll, and found it a surprisingly refreshing and accurate assessment of Arsene’s recent management record and skills.
Perhaps you or I could put the whole article on here just to show there are people out there, not involved with Arsenal, who are both rational and compassionate?
[Of course there is a much less favourable article written by Graeme Souness in the Sunday Times, too – which arrives at a different conclusion to Rod Liddle’s, so perhaps we should give that a miss?] lol
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I shall put up the full Liddle article later H but it is quite long and I am conscious that even the keenest Positive fan should be attending to family and spiritual on a Sunday. Shotta provides meat enough for now – fair ?
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You are always fair, anicoll!!
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Foreverheady at 10:37 am – My emphasis on Santi is because he is a key member of our current squad whom the mainstream media and our sensationalist army of Arsenal tweeters, bloggers and podcasters chose to ignore simply because it doesn’t fit into their narrative that “Wenger is incapable of bringing glory to the club.” There is no evidence that Santi is a spent force because of age. Functioning in a deeper role as he slows, he is just as if not more effective than when playing further upfield. Age it seems is an asset for deep lying players, just like any great quarterback in American football, the most recent example being Tom Brady. As the stats in my blog illustrate, Santi is a central midfielder who doesn’t even defend well (Coquelin is his minder). I keep reminding people that he is similar to Pirlo who was effective for Juventus up age 35. Players like Santi and Pirlo use their superlative technique, brains and experience to orchestrate their team’s attack.
Former US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld is a proven warmonger, responsible for the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocents going back to the Vietnam War through to Iraq, but among his famous quotes and which is appropriate to this discussion, is the following:
“It isn’t a matter of money. It isn’t a matter on the part of the army of desire. It’s a matter of production and capability of doing it. As you know, ah, you go to war with the army you have—not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.”
As Arsene reminded us recently, acquiring another Santi Cazorla is not a matter of money. Players of his ilk are rare. Treasure him and nurse him back to health. We may have lost this battle but there are many more wars to fight.
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Good to get back to some reality.
You will never find me disagreeing on anything in praise of Santi, amongst the best ….I at least have seen…..and seemingly underrated by some. We need him back, or someone to develop into what he is, and that isn’t easy.
Agree on the MF causing recent problems, I also wonder if instability over the managers future could play some part?
But the reality is, we invariably a get either Barca or Bayern first knockout round. Two excellent teams, first choice on players, sympathetic banks…..and a once friendly tax regime……winter breaks…..some rather strange officiating if needed…..at least in Barc….less competitive leagues…..cannot see Spanish refs allowing a lesser team to kick the shite out of Barca unpunished……yes, we face these teams with a lot going for them that we do not have.
Still, unlike some, we get to that point, every year. Would be nice to spring the odd surprise and knock one of these teams out, but the fact is, the way we are run puts them literally in a different league.
I am not sure if he was misquoted, naive or saying what he believed at the time, but Ivan saying we will be on a level with the likes of Bayern have come back to haunt a bit, as well as wengers alleged remarks about dominating Europe. These ideas are not reality for now, and need reining in. English clubs are not doing great on the international stage, I am sure in part due to the regressive nature of our football, even if the likes of Wenger refuses to subscribe to that.
The new narrative, Wenger will defy the fans , players, msm, and some of the board and sign a new contract. That remains to be seen, but a good way of increasing the anger until such a time when his future is decided.
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He Shotta-he scored!Nice piece for us to peruse going in to the game.Thank you!
One thing that seems to be coming up a fair bit, going in the Sutton game, is that the players wont be able to cope with the ground and changing rooms. But why? They all would have started off that way-one of the new media outlets said he was hoping Mesut would step out of the tunnel in this game. Mesuts from Gelsenkirchen, and he worked his way up.
Thanks again Shotts!
Come on Fulham!
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Just the tonic..well done Shotta
My philosophy of media shut down after a disappointing result works up to a point. But I cannot avoid friends and neighbours, some with a smirk.
I don’t know what to think at the moment. I tend to err on the side of expecting more from the players. This is because I’ve never accepted that any manager has absolute control and influence. These are top class players and they must step up to the plate…
Mark Schwazzer expects Sutton to win because our confidence is so low. That must not be. There is too much quality in our team.
Tomorrow should be part of the rebuilding process…
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Blackburn has scored. I would hold off on expressing scorn and contempt for United.
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Nice one Shotta, another data-driven delight, thought-provoking and pertinent.
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I let Georgeycharles in because he sounds like someone honestly trying to get to grips with the facts but like many he is reluctant to let go of the unfounded, unsubstantiated talking points of the mainstream media and our bloggers. Eg: Take the meme that Wenger doesn’t make early tactical substitutions. I have documented in a recent blog my research which revealed that most of Arsenal’s goals are scored after 75 minutes. The data fully supports AW’s decision on the timing of subs. Only a clueless observer or the patently dishonest would continue with asserting this falsehood.
Hopefully Georgey will not abuse his welcome.
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If we did lose to Sutton, then I would fear more than ever before for the manager.
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We’re not going to lose to Sutton.
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From what I understand we shall be turning up at Gander Green Lane as under-dogs at this rate !!
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As Henry suggested earlier the full piece of journalism on the Bayern game and Arsene from Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times today. Hardly praising our brave lads, though on the night even I struggled to find one good performance, but nevertheless a bit of common sense:
“I suppose it is impossible, if you’re an Arsenal fan or a former Arsenal player, to reflect upon that midweek 5-1 drubbing by Bayern Munich with anything like a sense of rational detachment. A gloom and perhaps a rage descends — perhaps was already descending as the genuinely awful Francis Coquelin skilfully shepherded Arjen Robben on to his favourite foot for him to smash home the opening goal for the Germans. However, I am neither an Arsenal supporter nor a former player, so I shall do my best.
Yes, Arsenal were comprehensively outplayed in every area of the pitch and collapsed like a soufflé baked by an imbecile. They lacked incisiveness going forward, possessed of nobody with the guile or verve of the undoubtedly irritating Robben, nor anyone with the clinical finishing power of the still magnificent Robert Lewandowski, or indeed Thiago. In midfield and defence they were distrait and dilatory, off the pace, off the boil, disinclined to do that onerous but reasonably important thing — track back. They perpetually stood off their opponents, second to the ball, the marking haphazard or non-existent.
The statistics for the lamentable Coquelin were telling: six passes completed in the 77 minutes he was, perhaps unwisely, allowed on the pitch. And not one tackle. Not a single tackle from a defensive midfielder! It was a shocking performance from a player who, just two years ago, promised so much. Where has his form gone?
And yet he was far from alone. If anyone can tell me what Kieran Gibbs brought to the party I’d be delighted to know. Or Theo Walcott, for that matter. So yes, it was a humiliating rout and a hammering and one has to doubt that the deficit will be easily overhauled in the return fixture, you Gunners.
But it was against Bayern Munich, which is why I would be a bit more circumspect than to join in the cacophony of howling that Arsène Wenger, the manager for 21 years, must leave — leave now! Go! Get thee hence! It began with a rant by Lee Dixon immediately after the game — this was the final nail in the coffin. He had never seen Wenger look so desolated. He must surely leave, now or at the end of the season at the very latest. And the pundits weighed in the following morning in much the same manner: that’s it for Wenger, all over now. It seemed to me remarkably short-sighted.
Sitting next to Dixon in that commentary booth was Roy Keane, who, as ever, made the two important points about the game. First, with something almost approaching mirth on his face, he said: “Well, what did you expect? Did you think they were going to go there and win?” And then, shortly after — that they are simply not as good as Bayern Munich and have only two players of genuinely world pedigree in their side. I assume by this he meant Laurent Koscielny and Alexi Sanchez. Remember that the former went off, injured, in the 49th minute, with the scores level. If he had stayed what might the final score have been? Perhaps 2-1 — we should not deny Bayern a deserved victory.
And I suppose you can argue from this that Arsenal do not have strength in depth. But it is not easy to replace a player of Koscielny’s ability, even if the subsequent capitulation was staggering in its immediacy and totality.
But that other point remains: Arsenal are not good enough to win the Champions League. The players are not as good as those of Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona. This, I think, is correct. But then English Premier League sides have not been as good as the very top European sides for the best part of a decade now, and that is not a consequence of Wenger’s supposed ineptitude in the transfer market or his inability to get the best out of a squad, despite those barbs that accuse him of being too loyal to under-performing or inadequate players.
The balance of power in Europe shifted eight or nine years ago, from that golden time when Wenger, Sir Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho were in their pomp and English clubs regularly reached the last four. As we have seen since then, it has become harder and harder for our own top clubs to attract the marquee players. And so the top four no longer look likely to win the Champions League.
Arsenal are currently fourth in the Premier League, just two points off second place. Tottenham Hotspur, above the Gunners only on goal difference, were also playing in Europe last week. Having come a dismal third in their Champion’s League group they travelled for a Europa Cup fixture to the might of Gent, in Belgium — a mid-table club ranked 139th in Europe. Tottenham lost 1-0. I think that’s probably worse than losing 5-1 to the team ranked third in the world.
Meanwhile, Manchester United were also piddling about in the Europa League. Arsenal won their Champions League group with some ease: Manchester City, above them in the Premier League table, finished a distant six points behind Barcelona, in second place, to whom they lost 4-0. These are the benchmarks against which you should judge the performance of Arsenal and Arsène Wenger — not simply that they are unable to hold their own against a brilliant Bayern Munich side, but that they topped their group, reached the last 16, continue to occupy a Champions League place domestically and have always been one of the top four — and usually top three — sides in the country.
This all being said, mind, I reserve my right to change my opinion completely if they get stuffed by Sutton United in the FA Cup tomorrow night. Wenger out!”
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sutton or arsenal v lincoln
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chelsea v man utd
middlesboro v huddersfield or man city
spurs v milwall
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Sutton/Arsenal v Lincoln City. No need for Greed/Conviction my friends. Just Caution/Confidence.
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Doomed – we’re doomed !
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Spurs Millwall eh ?
For those of us of a certain age and a raft of delusions about ourselves a tie to look forward to for every single wrong reason
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Where did these deluded twats get the idea this is AW’s last season? Do they think the pros on AFC’s board react emotionally?
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The reason we might lose tomorrow is that Sutton will play like men demented and the referee will allow them full licence to abuse the rules – whole immediately red carding any of ours who show any intent on mixing it.
But if it is remotely level and our players set out to win all the battles that need to be won we will be just fine.
I am not full of hope.
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as for the article, I don’t think the negativity surrounding Arsenal after the 5-1 is based on that result alone, losing 2-1 at home to watford, having been very poor in the first half, losing 3-1 to chelsea and a struggle to beat hull has all contributed to the way arsenal are seen at the moment.
Its all well and good saying Bayern are just a far better team than us, well Watford, and Bournemouth are arguably further behind Arsenal than Arsenal are behind Bayern, yet we dropped 5 points to them in recent weeks. that is half of the points difference between us and the leaders.
The major mistakes leading to goals conceded that we have seen in so many of our big games in recent seasons and the number of big defeats we have suffered is a major concern. Why does it keep happening, we shoot ourselves in the foot so often. We wobble big time once we let in a goal, when we overcome it without letting in that second goal we often come back and get something out of the game. in fact when we keep opponents down to only one goal we so very rarely lose – we have not lost a game so far this season when we have only let in one goal, we only lost one game last season 1-0, and one the season before, and two games the season before, so since the start of 13/14 season we have only lost 4 games 1-0. but in the same time we have had 13 defeats where we have let in 3 or more goals. And another 4 draws where we have let in 3 or more goals.
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The boys should be up for it Heady. The wild card is how great a mark the stain of defeat in Munich has left. Given the great lengths the media has gone to push the negativity they will need to be psychologically strong to withstand any setbacks. They will get no help from our lot. PA types are a rare breed in the fanbase.
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we can but hope that the officials for the sutton v arsenal game do not buy into the dream of the fa cup needing to see an all non league qf, meaning a non league semi finalist.
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Welbeck played for our u23’s in their defeat today v lcfc u23’s, he played 69 minutes and was replaced by Nketiah. Welbeck will not be involved in our FAC game tomorrow because its on an artificial pitch and after his injury problems for the last two seasons it was decided to not risk him.
Keto
Johnson Olowu Sheaf Bramall
Dasilva Nelson
Malen Willock Dragomir
Welbeck
Read more at http://www.arsenal.com/match/report/1617/post/under-21/find-out-how-welbz-got-on-for-the-u-23s#aJ3HQiuaI7jUqygX.99
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JB™ @gunnerpunner 50m50 minutes ago
Biggest bullshit is when people say they have banners because the club ‘don’t listen’. Maybe they hear you and just think you’re pricks?
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Every game is a contest to be taken 100% seriously – after thrashing Saints away did we really take on Watford with our minds in the right place ? Hmmm
I would be entirely content to have the magic of the FA Cup extinguished by an opening 20 minute barrage of Arsenal goals that puts the contest beyond any doubt.
God knows what our players really think but if I was them I’d rather fancy a trip back to the Sutton level – uninhibited
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In all his time at Arsenal, Wenger’s teams have lost to lower league opposition only twice. Both in the same season (Blackburn and Brentford) While past performance is not a guarantee of the future, this would not be the first time we’ve faced a fired up, technically poorer team with refs abetting them (though the stats on Untold way before used to show that refs were fairer in their decision making in the cups as opposed to the league)
Barring an absolute farce of a ref performance like the Newcastle 4-4, if we lose to Sutton, I am afraid it will mean that the players have given up on their season and their manager. Despite claims that ‘Wenger has lost the dressing room’ being made in seasons past whenever the chips are down, they have always been shown up to be speculative nonsense. Again there’s the qualifier about past performances, but I would be very surprised if that were to happen.
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anicol that is the fear, that our players go into games lacking focus, Wenger has said as much a few times this season, he has even hinted that he and the coaches have done everything they can to try and get them focused, and that he thought that everything looked right in the prep and the players had been warned about what to expect, but that once the game started the focus was just not there and did not come till we were already a goal or two behind.
I do think that if Wenger does decide to leave this summer that this apparent lack of professionalism from our players will factor more into it than any amount of fan or media abuse he gets.
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shard, that should be Bradford, not Brentford
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Yes, I agree with eduardo. While there is a lot of nonsense spoken about Arsenal, and an incessant stream of negativity kept up, there is a certain logic to those feelings right now. I don’t think that’s wrong. I just think most people tend to react by saying ‘fire the manager’ because they are in no position to assess what is actually happening and doing something seems better than not taking immediate action (which they wrongly equate with doing nothing)
In their corner, they have the conventional, widely accepted ‘wisdom’ of football clubs (and sports teams) It isn’t easy to stand out, and stand alone. Which is what makes Arsene Wenger special.
I was pleasantly surprised to see him be more forthcoming than usual on his future, and replying to a question about him having had enough by saying he will definitely be managing next season, whether at Arsenal or elsewhere. It’s clear he still has the hunger and desire, and despite all the frustration expressed (and the legitimate causes) I wouldn’t bet against him setting things right, if he is allowed to.
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shard maybe the reason why we get fairer treatment form refs in the cups is cos we get more of a spread of the refs in the cups, especially v the lesser teams, we don’t get the “elite” pgmob refs, we get the proper refs, who are not looking to be the star attraction.
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Oops. Bradford indeed. (In my defense it’s 1 a.m. here)
eddy, that might well be true, but as I recall, the analysis showed that even the same refs were being more even handed than their usual league showing. Make of that what you will, but I found it interesting.
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Bluntly speaking, you are wrong Eddy. I am not going to sugar coat it. Your recount of heavy defeats is a case of cherry picking data to suit your narrative. From my research over the past 20 years we are on average the 3rd best team in the league defensively with 33 GA. In the last 10 years we dropped to 4th with an average of 39 Goals Against. This was comparable to Liverpool. In my recollection only the 3 bigger spending clubs; United, Chelsea and City conceded less. I made case the reason we had more goals against was ref bias in the award of penalties, a 206% increase since 2006 compared to Liverpool.
The data does not support your notion that we are prone to concede more than other teams.
This has me wondering if researching the data is helping you to fight Fear-Panic-Contempt that is being spread by the likes of Arseblogger and others.
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well shard the “sack the manager” call is the normal soundbite, and has been for all clubs in a sticky run of results, even more so now than in the past, partly due to the transfer window now. When we had an open transfer window till the last 6 weeks or so of a season, fans would first and foremost call for a signing or two to fix the problems. Now that is a no no, the only other fix left is change the manager.
I’ve said on here before that to change things at a club there are two main options
1. change the manager
2. change the players
fans of course will call for no.1, and most clubs will in fact take that option too, mainly cos it normally costs much less, or at the very least it will seem the most cost effective method. In reality, the new manager normally will demand transfer funds be spent on new players. Again this, fans know, means they get a combination of both 1 & 2. New manager and new players, ah Christmas and birthday rolled into one, what’s not to like for a football fan.
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eddy
An interesting stat someone quoted recently (I haven’t checked) is that Klopp has the exact same points as Rodgers did after 54 league games.
My feeling is that it is unlikely that we’ll go from 4th to 1st in terms of probability of winning regardless of any change in manager, and are actually more likely to slip further (and find it harder to recover than ManU), but also that this makes no difference to people who now just want something different, even if it’s worse. Which is why Liverpool fans and Spurs fans seem happier than Arsenal fans. That, and no negative narrative ongoing in the media.
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The huge advantage that Spurs and LFC fans have over us is that they genuinely know and have had to bitterly embrace being absolutely fucking mediocre for plenty of seasons over the past decade. One League Cup between then in 8 -9 years is it ? They know the black and the white of pain and ecstasy.
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shotta you are missing the point, i have never stated that we are prone to concede more goals a season than other teams, we are prone to concede a second goal and more once we concede one goal.
overall goals conceded does not tell the story of how, where and when the goals are let in. the big defeats do back my wobble claim, you are with an over all conceded stat ignoring the where, the when and the how, and the effect. We keep a good number of clean sheets, Szczesny won golden gloves a few seasons ago for us, with 16 clean sheets, we kept 17 clean sheets out of 38 BPL games that season, but the problem is that despite this we still let in 41 goals in the other 21 games.
As I stated we have in defeats since start of the 13/14 season, let in 3 or more goals 13 times, and there has been another 4 or five draws with 3 or more goals.
That is just going with conceding at least 3 goals, if you add in games we have let in 2 goals, its almost a staggering number.
This season we have in the BPL only kept 8 clean sheets in 25 games, so we conceded in 2/3 of our league games. And we have in those 25 games let in 2 or more goals in 7 of them. we have also conceded 2 or more goals in 4 cups games, and have had 5 clean sheets in cup games. So overall that is 13 clean sheets, and 11 games where we have let in 2 or more goals.
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yes shard, i would not doubt that rodgers/klopp stat as they had exact same records at some point last season.
and yes anicol a problem for many arsenal fans is that in so many ways they have been spoilt and despite managers of the ilk of jose, pep, poch, and lvg all stating how important getting top 4 is for their clubs, AFC fans refuse to acknowledge the reality of it. The problem is that we have not been able to turn that top 4 into top 1. and so top 4 has become a stick to beat us with, while at the same time putting it down as an achievement for others when they get it.
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Walid Arsenal @1Walid1 1h1 hour ago
There are Arsenal fans genuinely upset that we got a favourable draw because of their views on Wenger. Absolute state of them
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GoonerGordo @GoonerGordo 1h1 hour ago
Wenger will leave after beating Spurs in the final. It’s written. I can see it now.
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Pablo @AFCAMDEN 2h2 hours ago
Our draws are definitely fixed. I remember when we got easy tie’s against Spurs, Liverpool, Everton & United on route to consecutive FA Cups
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BBC 606 @bbc606 2h2 hours ago
“I’m watching Wenger get pelters across the road & hearing what a genius Pochettino is. Let’s see him win something first.”
@JohnHartson10
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stuart @stusaxon71 1h1 hour ago
Arsenal fan tv said they were all things Arsenal and wld show up to celebrate Kelly smith farewell game.
Guess what.
No show.
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